Trump's proposal to bar Muslims from entering the USA is constitutional

[EinsteinsGirl]

Yes, Trump's proposal to bar Muslims from entering the U.S. is constitutional

 

[Cearbhall]

His argument only applies to Islamic supremacy, and he said so himself in the first 20 seconds.

Furthermore, he's not understanding that any trait that you can't prove is a pointless restriction, and that's why it would never be implemented. You can prove someone's affiliation to terrorist groups. You cannot prove that someone is a Muslim. Letting random agents made that judgment call would be anarchy.

 

[variant]

The first amendment guarantees free exercise of religion and it protects people who wish to cross our borders as pertains to the governments actions with regard to them.

The government can't bar someone from entry due to simply belonging to a specific religion, they can only do so if they think that the specific person is a threat because of of some demonstration of radicalism that would make an obvious exception to the idea.

It says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Not "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, but this only applies to citizens and not people who either travel to the country to either stay or visit because we might be paranoid about foreigners for some reason in the future.."

 

[GoldenBoy89]

1) Who is this guy and why should I care what he thinks?

2) He's wrong.

3) Donald Trump will not be President.

Even ignoring Islam being an established religion that has existed longer than the United States itself, you can't ban people for holding specific beliefs, be they religious or political.

 

[KWCrazy]

We decide who comes to America.
Islam has not renounced terrorism. Most terrorists are Islamic. Radical Islamists intend to murder Americans. If we aren't sure that the person in question is NOT a threat, then we shouldn't let them in the country. We have that right.
It's not about religion, it's about radical terrorists who all belong to the same religion.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

We decide who comes to America.
Islam has not renounced terrorism. Most terrorists are Islamic. Radical Islamists intend to murder Americans. If we aren't sure that the person in question is NOT a threat, then we shouldn't let them in the country. We have that right.
It's not about religion, it's about radical terrorists who all belong to the same religion.

So how do you know who is a Muslim?

Also, what do you do if these radical terrorists start belonging to other religions? Do you ban those from entry as well?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

So how do you know who is a Muslim?

You can't. You can know what country someone is coming from though. You can bar immigration from countries known to have large Muslim populations. Immigration restrictions based on national origin have plenty of legal precedent in the United States.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

You can't. You can know what country someone is coming from though. You can bar immigration from countries known to have large Muslim populations. Immigration restrictions based on national origin have plenty of legal precedent in the United States.

Well then that is a little different from banning Muslims for their religion, isn't it? That's what the video is talking about.

Would Christians from Islamic countries be banned too? Or Muslims from non-Muslim majority countries, like say from Great Britain.. Would they be denied entry?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Well then that is a little different from banning Muslims for their religion, isn't it? That's what the video is talking about.

It's a question of how you go about it. I can't say for sure what Trump had in mind specifically, but I doubt he was suggesting that foreign nationals be required to eat a ham sandwich before entring the country.

Would Christians from Islamic countries be banned too?

Yes. We can't take any chances.

Or Muslims from non-Muslim majority countries, like say from Great Britain.. Would they be denied entry?

Well, as I mentioned, you can't know whether they're Muslim, so no. Anjem Choudary might be another matter, though.

 

[lasthero]

His argument only applies to Islamic supremacy, and he said so himself in the first 20 seconds.

Furthermore, he's not understanding that any trait that you can't prove is a pointless restriction, and that's why it would never be implemented. You can prove someone's affiliation to terrorist groups. You cannot prove that someone is a Muslim. Letting random agents made that judgment call would be anarchy.

That's really the crux of the matter, for me.

Even IF we started banning Muslims from entering the United States, all a terrorist would have to do is, you know...LIE. Any terrorisit coming to America to harm people iisn't going to be too detered by the prospect of having to lie to do it. Do people really think some terrorist is going to call off his plans simply because he has to check a different box?

It's not something that would actually make us safer, just something that would make us feel safer.

 

[TLK Valentine]

We decide who comes to America.

And we use laws to decide... and we use the Constitution as the basis of those laws.

Islam has not renounced terrorism.

Have you?

Most terrorists are Islamic.

Most terrorists are male. Let's bar men from entering the country...

Radical Islamists intend to murder Americans.

Ah, sounds like we need the Thought Police to protect us what what some people might intend...

If we aren't sure that the person in question is NOT a threat, then we shouldn't let them in the country.

Who decided you weren't a threat?

We have that right.

The Constitution says otherwise.

It's not about religion, it's about radical terrorists who all belong to the same religion.

But we're not banning radical terrorists, we're banning a religion.

That means it wasn't about religion until Donald Trump made it about religion.

 

[KWCrazy]

Also, what do you do if these radical terrorists start belonging to other religions? Do you ban those from entry as well?

I would hope we ban ALL terrorists.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I would hope we ban ALL terrorists.

If we ban all Muslims because some of them are terrorists, then if we similarly ban all Christians, all Jews, all Buddhists, etc... You'll get your wish.

Logically, if we ban ALL people, we ban ALL terrorists.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

You can't. You can know what country someone is coming from though. You can bar immigration from countries known to have large Muslim populations. Immigration restrictions based on national origin have plenty of legal precedent in the United States.

Well since a handful of saudis killed more people in a day than every other person from every other country combined. I propose we start with Saudi Arabia.

 

[Albion]

It says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Not "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Of course the proposal is Constitutional. And it involved no establishment of a religion or prohibiting any free exercise of such. By now, we should realize that these matters--the facts--were never relevant to those folks who were determined to oppose anything Trump said.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Of course the proposal is Constitutional. And it involved no establishment of a religion or prohibiting any free exercise of such.

Barring entry into the country solely on the basis of the religion they practice is not "prohibiting the free exercise of such"?

Seems more like a textbook example... but do try to explain.

 

[Cearbhall]

Islam has not renounced terrorism.

Last time I checked, Islam is not a person. No one person gets to decide how they all feel about terrorism. Plenty of Muslims have renounced terrorism publicly, and I fail to see what threat they pose to our country.

 

[KWCrazy]

Last time I checked, Islam is not a person. No one person gets to decide how they all feel about terrorism. Plenty of Muslims have renounced terrorism publicly, and I fail to see what threat they pose to our country.

Invite them to move in with your family.
Islam teaches hatred and intolerance. They murder homosexuals and those they consider infidels. We should not endanger ourselves by bringing their madness here. Let them remain in the Middle East.

 

[KWCrazy]

Well since a handful of saudis killed more people in a day than every other person from every other country combined. I propose we start with Saudi Arabia.

Works for me.

 

[Cearbhall]

Invite them to move in with your family.

I would if I were in the market for sharing my home. Are you trying to get me to admit to some fear of them? My Muslim friends are less of a threat to me than most people are. That's why they're my friends. I've slept in the same room as them, eaten their family's food, watched them pray, etc. I really couldn't care less what religion they are.

Islam teaches hatred and intolerance.

I'm pretty sure it's not up to you what my friends believe.