Trump workers moved Mar-a-Lago boxes a day before FBI came for documents

[Say it aint so]

In this nation failure to answer a question is not to be assumed to be an admission of some vague assertion of guilt.

Who is talking guilt?
What I am talking about is a defense Trump makes all day long in public, but one his lawyers dare not bring up in court.

 

[Say it aint so]

"According to people familiar with the matter" Trump colluded with Russia, sold the nuclear football to China, rode naked on a unicorn down Pennsylvania avenue at midnight, and painted a mustache on the Face of Mars. Anonymous sources no longer carry any weight whatsoever.

Now, until someone can answer the question of what documents did Trump have and which documents were subject to his declassification memo, as far as I am concerned there is no evidence that he had any classified documents at all.

Since Trump announced the declassification the day before his last day in office, what makes you think they have been through that declassification process as to date? What was boxed up was before this announcement, so how does that work? Not only that, there are things like gifts that never had classification, but that doesn't mean Trump has the right to think they belong to him.

Sen Grassely says they have not been through the process in his letter to AG Garland:

​

Dear Attorney General Garland:​

​

We are in receipt of your January 20, 2022, letter which was sent in response to our October 13, 2021, letter. We remain concerned that over one year from the date then-President Trump directed the Justice Department to declassify certain Crossfire Hurricane records the Justice Department has not only failed to declassify a single page, the Department has failed to identify for Congress records that it knows with certainty to be covered by the declassification directive.​

 

[wing2000]

The charge for "Willful retention" is a given. The government asked for the documents. Trump refused.
The latest information could lead to more severe charges such as obstruction, dissemination and conspiracy.

Willful Retention:
Section 793(e) only punishes a defendant who unlawfully retains NDI “willfully.” Willful retention is not accidental, negligent, or reckless. Rather, a defendant only retains NDI willfully if he or she knows he or she possesses it and knows that such possession is prohibited due to the nature of the information. See, e.g., United States v. Hitselberger, 991 F. Supp.2d 101, 106-07 (D. D.C. 2013).

Willfulness and the Harm of Unlawful Retention of National Security Information - Journal of National Security Law & Policy

Congress has enacted a series of prohibitions against stealing national security information and disclosing it to an unauthorized recipient ...

jnslp.com

 

[Blade]

Nothing within this is fact as in true. One word does stand out in part "alleged" what does that word mean? I thought president Trump was working with someone hmm how was that? You know to give back.. They had to see all that was there to tell them to put another lock on. Then what about those people that took all those pictures before he left office? Yeah odd that part never gets talked about.. and all those people that moved all those boxes to where Trump lived.. all those people watching over those boxes secret service? All in on this are they? Hello Russia Russia Russia.

 

[DaisyDay]

In this nation failure to answer a question is not to be assumed to be an admission of some vague assertion of guilt.

The worst can be legally assumed in a civil trial when either the plaintiff or defendant refused to answer a specific question, so I don't know about "in this nation..."

 

[DaisyDay]

"According to people familiar with the matter" Trump colluded with Russia, sold the nuclear football to China, rode naked on a unicorn down Pennsylvania avenue at midnight, and painted a mustache on the Face of Mars. Anonymous sources no longer carry any weight whatsoever.

Now, until someone can answer the question of what documents did Trump have and which documents were subject to his declassification memo, as far as I am concerned there is no evidence that he had any classified documents at all.

We don't know all the documents, but among them were the "love letters" from Kim Jong Un, the welcome letters from the Obamas & the Sharpie-gate weather map - none of them national security, but each of them famous artifacts from his administration.

Why would the classified documents be made public for our viewing pleasure? But the evidence we did see were the classification folders from his desk and undisputed testimony from the FBI which requested that Trump and his peeps either check the inventory or submit one of their own (refused).

 

[DaisyDay]

So instead of listening to "people familiar with the matter" we should go with made up nonsense from someone not familiar at all? That certainly is a novel approach.

If only.

 

[Bradskii]

In this nation failure to answer a question is not to be assumed to be an admission of some vague assertion of guilt.

That's not correct. That only applies to a failure to answer questions after being charged and read your rights. Otherwise...

Jenkins v. Anderson, 447 U.S. 231 (1980), is a United States Supreme Court case regarding the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.
The Supreme Court held that a defendant's silence prior to a Miranda warning can be used by the prosecution to imply an admission.

 

[disciple Clint]

Nothing wild. Nothing devoid of fact. I don't make things up.

Making things up??? you have no facts to show and you say I am making things up, WOW

 

[disciple Clint]

Assumed???? break that word down

 

[disciple Clint]

That's not correct. That only applies to a failure to answer questions after being charged and read your rights. Otherwise...

Jenkins v. Anderson, 447 U.S. 231 (1980), is a United States Supreme Court case regarding the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.
The Supreme Court held that a defendant's silence prior to a Miranda warning can be used by the prosecution to imply an admission.

that is definitely an misapplication of that decision read the decision.

 

[Say it aint so]

Making things up??? you have no facts to show and you say I am making things up, WOW

This is what I said: "Which attorneys? The one's who lost attorney client privileges given the crime fraud exception, those who are now witnesses, or the ones who constantly quit?'

FACT: Trump lawyer ordered to testify in classified documents case in landmark ruling, sources say​

"Evan Corcoran has been ordered to testify, piercing attorney-client privilege." "...The Justice Department made the request on the basis of the crime-fraud exception, sources said, which allows for claims of attorney-client privilege to be pierced in cases where it is suspected that a lawyer's legal services were rendered in the commission of a crime. Howell said in Friday's order that the DOJ has met the threshold of the crime-fraud exception, according to sources familiar with the matter..."​

FACT: Trump attorney Timothy Parlatore testified before grand jury in December in documents probe​

Timothy Parlatore, an attorney for former President Trump, testified in December before a grand jury in Washington, D.C., investigating the former president’s handling of classified documents, Parlatore confirmed to The Hill.​

FACT: Trump attorney Evan Corcoran testifies before federal grand jury in documents probe​

Washington — An attorney for former President Donald Trump testified for over three hours before a federal grand jury convened by special counsel Jack Smith, who is investigating the potential mishandling of documents with classified markings, according to two people familiar with the matter.​

FACT: Trump lawyer quits — and throws fellow Trump attorney under the bus in DOJ probe​

One of former President Donald Trump's attorneys quit and quickly threw a fellow member of the legal team under the bus.​

Tim Parlatore served as an attorney for Trump in the Justice Department's investigation into Trump's handling of classified documents and efforts to alter the results of the 2020 presidential election. Last August, the FBI raided Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence in West Palm Beach, Florida, uncovering troves of material, including documents labeled as classified. Politico reported that the search "led not only to issues involving document retention by other political leaders, including President Joe Biden and former Vice President Mike Pence, but also sparked questions as to what, if anything, a former president can lawfully do in terms of retaining classified material.​

​

So one more time, which lawyers do you refer too? The one's who lost attorney client privileges given the crime fraud exception, those who are now witnesses, or the ones who constantly quit?' And may I add another category. Do you mean the Trump attorneys who have been sanctioned and have now had to hire attorneys themselves since they are being either sued, under investigation themselves, or both?

 

[DaisyDay]

Which attorneys? The one's who lost attorney client privileges given the crime fraud exception, those who are now witnesses, or the ones who constantly quit?

more wild accusations without basis in fact.

Making things up??? you have no facts to show and you say I am making things up, WOW

1) The one's who lost attorney client privileges given the crime fraud exception: Putting aside the older Cohen and Giuliani cases, most recently Chief Judge Howell ruled that Trump attorney Evan Corcoran must testify in the Mar-A-Lago document investigation (Forbes link, NYTimes link).

2) Those who are now witnesses: Michael Cohen and Evan Corcoran, again. Sort of a trick question because in order to testify, the privilege had to be pierced.

3) The ones who quit: Timothy Parlatore and Ty Cobb, Butch Bowers, Deborah Barbier, Josh Howard, Johnny Gasser and Greg Harris..

So, the accusations may be wild, but they are true and factually based.

 

[Say it aint so]

1) The one's who lost attorney client privileges given the crime fraud exception: Putting aside the older Cohen and Giuliani cases, most recently Chief Judge Howell ruled that Trump attorney Evan Corcoran must testify in the Mar-A-Lago document investigation (Forbes link, NYTimes link).

2) Those who are now witnesses: Michael Cohen and Evan Corcoran, again. Sort of a trick question because in order to testify, the privilege had to be pierced.

3) The ones who quit: Timothy Parlatore and Ty Cobb, Butch Bowers, Deborah Barbier, Josh Howard, Johnny Gasser and Greg Harris..

So, the accusations may be wild, but they are true and factually based.

I don't know, if I am in discussion with someone who I think is making wild accusations, I'm on the internet, so I go check it out.
So I am not sure if it's a case of this, or just being lazy, or comfort of one's echo chamber.

 

[DaisyDay]

I don't know, if I am in discussion with someone who I think is making wild accusations, I'm on the internet, so I go check it out.
So I am not sure if it's a case of this, or just being lazy, or comfort of one's echo chamber.

Yes, I can't say which because I'd only be guessing, but by not looking up questionable items, he is only cheating himself.

 

[disciple Clint]

I don't know, if I am in discussion with someone who I think is making wild accusations, I'm on the internet, so I go check it out.
So I am not sure if it's a case of this, or just being lazy, or comfort of one's echo chamber.

So you would like to believe that every attorney that works for Trump is some kind of criminal, that is far from the case.

 

[disciple Clint]

I don't know, if I am in discussion with someone who I think is making wild accusations, I'm on the internet, so I go check it out.
So I am not sure if it's a case of this, or just being lazy, or comfort of one's echo chamber.

Lazy come now, more wild accusations.

 

[DaisyDay]

So you would like to believe that every attorney that works for Trump is some kind of criminal, that is far from the case.

That is not what was said; that is a wild accusation on your part.

Lazy come now, more wild accusations.

Baseless insult - examples with clickable links were given. If you don't check them out perhaps the "lazy" accusation is mere projection. It's almost as if you were impervious to an idea not your own.

 

[Say it aint so]

So you would like to believe that every attorney that works for Trump is some kind of criminal, that is far from the case.

I would first like people to summarize what I said or didn't say with accuracy.

 

[NxNW]

Now, until someone can answer the question of what documents did Trump have and which documents were subject to his declassification memo, as far as I am concerned there is no evidence that he had any classified documents at all.

Trump Was Taped Discussing Sensitive Document He Had Kept After Leaving Office​

Federal prosecutors investigating former President Donald J. Trump’s handling of classified material have a recording of Mr. Trump from 2021 discussing a sensitive military document he had kept after leaving the White House, two people briefed on the matter said.

In the recording, Mr. Trump suggested he knew the document was secret and had not declassified it, one person briefed on the matter said.

On the recording, Mr. Trump began railing about his handpicked chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, who was described in media accounts at the time as having guarded against Mr. Trump’s striking Iran in the final days of the presidency, according to the people briefed on the matter. The Justice Department obtained the recording in recent months, a potentially key piece in a mountain of evidence that prosecutors have amassed under the special counsel, Jack Smith, since he was appointed in November to oversee the federal investigations into Mr. Trump.