Trump walks out of shutdown meeting with top Democrats

[Ringo84]

It's irrelevant if the wall works? That's funny no matter who you are. Do walls work or not? If they don't then it is irrelevant what kind of wall it is. If they do work then we can have a discussion on the best wall. So please answer yes or no. Do walls work or not?

We already have a wall that seems to work fine, yeah. Donny's "steel slats", which is not yet built, aren't needed.

When you can figure out arguments in favor of the wall Donny wants, let me know. I'll be waiting, but not with bated breath.
Ringo

 

[rjs330]

This wall, that Trump is demanding money for, is not part of a comprehensive plan. A 30 foot wall from sea to sea is a stupid idea.

Open the government, take the time to come up with an actual border security plan (which may include physical barriers of some sort), and pass that.

Trump may not have said "I want a wall and nothing else" but neither has he proposed a real plan. In addition, he has made it quite clear that he will sign off on a bill that includes a wall even if it includes nothing else.

I do dislike Trump, but the extensive evidence I have pointed to does not support a 30 foot monument to Trump's ego being a good use of money at this time. This has all been extensively documented in earlier posts.

And, walls may work in some situations. The question is, is it the best use of resources in this situation.

Finally, I am vehemently opposed to giving in to Trump's temper tantrum. Giving him his wall now will make no significant dent in illegal immigration, drug trafficking, etc. However, you need to treat Trump like a child at this point - giving in to his demands will just encourage him to do it again when he gets some other crazy idea in his head.

That is so not true. Trump does have a comprehensive plan. You probably just don't like it.
You're entitled to your opinion.
And we've seen walls work. If you read the the one article I posted you would see how the wall would pay for itself after a few years. Not that long.

Trump is not a nice person. We all know that. But just because he's not nice and a jerk, doesn't make him wrong. He wants the wall. And he could be a nice person and still want the wall and still not give in.

His jerkiness is not a reason to not have a wall. I have a feeling that you would be opposed to the wall even if he were the nicest guy on Earth.
Are you for illegal immigration? If not then why not a wall?

 

[rjs330]

We already have a wall that seems to work fine, yeah. Donny's "steel slats", which is not yet built, aren't needed.

When you can figure out arguments in favor of the wall Donny wants, let me know. I'll be waiting, but not with bated breath.
Ringo

So you are saying walls work?

 

[Ringo84]

So you are saying walls work?

I'm saying that the wall we have works fine.

Once again: if there were good arguments for the wall Donny wants, you'd have made them.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

"If you think about it, guys, aren't we all made of wall?"

Tim And Eric Mind Blown GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

"Trump has a plan! I can't tell you what it is, but buh-lieve me - his plan is awesome!"

This is getting kind of pathetic.
Ringo

 

[EpiscipalMe]

That is so not true. Trump does have a comprehensive plan. You probably just don't like it.
You're entitled to your opinion.
And we've seen walls work. If you read the the one article I posted you would see how the wall would pay for itself after a few years. Not that long.

Trump is not a nice person. We all know that. But just because he's not nice and a jerk, doesn't make him wrong. He wants the wall. And he could be a nice person and still want the wall and still not give in.

His jerkiness is not a reason to not have a wall. I have a feeling that you would be opposed to the wall even if he were the nicest guy on Earth.
Are you for illegal immigration? If not then why not a wall?

If Trump has a plan, where is it? Find a source and post the link. Start with what the wall is made of and where it is going. Then include what other measures he wants and how they will be deployed.

Your last question, insinuating that one is either for a wall or for illegal immigration is a straw man that has been debunked time and time again.

 

[Phil.Stein]

Trump walks out of shutdown meeting with top Democrats, calling it 'total waste of time' – live

Chuck Schumer told reporters president slammed the table and walked out as Trump backs up his account, saying: ‘I said bye-bye’

I'm sure if there's a dent in the table from him slamming it, it'll be "the democrats' fault for making him so mad he had to slam the table"

Is it "cool" to denigrate the president? If the democrats weren't going to negotiate, which it seems they weren't, why should The Don waste his time? To the minds of most reasonable people, Trump is treating the democrats like naughty children, because this is how they are behaving.

 

[rjs330]

I'm saying that the wall we have works fine.

Once again: if there were good arguments for the wall Donny wants, you'd have made them.
Ringo

I have made them. And the wall we have now only works in the areas we actually have one. We don't have a wall along the whole border, which is what we are after.

So you agree that walls work. I'm glad . Now tell me since walls work and you agree, then why won't the wall Trump wants work?

 

[Ringo84]

I have made them. And the wall we have now only works in the areas we actually have one. We don't have a wall along the whole border, which is what we are after.

Where did you make them? Screaming "Nuh uh!" at people posting isn't making an argument.

So you agree that walls work. I'm glad . Now tell me since walls work and you agree, then why won't the wall Trump wants work?

There Is No Border Crisis
Trump Says Border Wall Will Stop Drugs. Here’s What a DEA Intel Report Says.
What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

I've posted this already.
Ringo

 

[rjs330]

If Trump has a plan, where is it? Find a source and post the link. Start with what the wall is made of and where it is going. Then include what other measures he wants and how they will be deployed.

Your last question, insinuating that one is either for a wall or for illegal immigration is a straw man that has been debunked time and time again.

Sorry do your own homework. Secondly if you are against a wall when you are for illegal immigration. Why? Because a wall helps keep illegals out. Without a wall they get in. With a wall they don't. At least not in the same numbers. No plan of any kind is fool proof. But we do know a wall works.

You are for illegal immigration.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Sorry do your own homework. Secondly if you are against a wall when you are for illegal immigration. Why? Because a wall helps keep illegals out. Without a wall they get in. With a wall they don't. At least not in the same numbers. No plan of any kind is fool proof. But we do know a wall works.

You are for illegal immigration.

You are wrong. I am not for illegal immigration. I am for smart, well thought out plans. These plan may include physical barriers in some places. They also should include technology and personnel. They should include enforcement of e-verify and tacking of visas.

We already have barriers along much of the southern border. What evidence is there that we need more? If we do, where should it go and what sort of barrier should it be? These are unanswered questions.

Like I said - Trump doesn’t have a plan, he has a talking point. I am not against all walls, I am against this wall whose only purpose is to ensure louder cheers at Trump’s next rally.

 

[Ringo84]

But didn't you know, Episcipal? If you're against Trump's "steel slats", then you're automatically against every wall that every existed. That's totally logical and makes perfect sense, right?
Ringo

 

[EpiscipalMe]

But didn't you know, Episcipal? If you're against Trump's "steel slats", then you're automatically against every wall that every existed. That's totally logical and makes perfect sense, right?
Ringo

Don’t forget, you are also for open borders, let everyone in, and get all those illegal immigrants voting Democrat.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go tear down my fence and throw all my house doors open...

 

[wing2000]

Sorry do your own homework.

Show your homework. Specifically, a security analysis that supports "a wall along the whole border".

 

[rjs330]

Where did you make them? Screaming "Nuh uh!" at people posting isn't making an argument.



There Is No Border Crisis
Trump Says Border Wall Will Stop Drugs. Here’s What a DEA Intel Report Says.
What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

I've posted this already.
Ringo

You already agreed that walls work. You just don't like the wall Trump wants because it's Trump. There is an important thing to note in the border article and it's this.

Customs and Border Protection officials said Border Patrol agents were asked to identify “gaps” in border security, not to propose solutions. They said that Border Patrol sector chiefs, from San Diego to the Rio Grande Valley in Texas, have voiced support for a border wall.

The gaps they mention are the need for more personnel. And it's true. They need more people. They need more tech. They need a wall. El Paso has proven walls work. You admitted that. You just don't want THIS kind of wall. Why not?

 

[rjs330]

You are wrong. I am not for illegal immigration. I am for smart, well thought out plans. These plan may include physical barriers in some places. They also should include technology and personnel. They should include enforcement of e-verify and tacking of visas.

We already have barriers along much of the southern border. What evidence is there that we need more? If we do, where should it go and what sort of barrier should it be? These are unanswered questions.

Like I said - Trump doesn’t have a plan, he has a talking point. I am not against all walls, I am against this wall whose only purpose is to ensure louder cheers at Trump’s next rally.

The evidence is in El Paso. The wall works. We also need everything else you mentioned. No one is saying we don't need the things you mentioned. We need them AND a wall.

Do you believe illegal immigrants should be apprehended and sent home?

 

[rjs330]

But didn't you know, Episcipal? If you're against Trump's "steel slats", then you're automatically against every wall that every existed. That's totally logical and makes perfect sense, right?
Ringo

Why are you against the steel slats? What kind of wall are you in favor of and why?

 

[EpiscipalMe]

You already agreed that walls work. You just don't like the wall Trump wants because it's Trump. There is an important thing to note in the border article and it's this.

Customs and Border Protection officials said Border Patrol agents were asked to identify “gaps” in border security, not to propose solutions. They said that Border Patrol sector chiefs, from San Diego to the Rio Grande Valley in Texas, have voiced support for a border wall.

The gaps they mention are the need for more personnel. And it's true. They need more people. They need more tech. They need a wall. El Paso has proven walls work. You admitted that. You just don't want THIS kind of wall. Why not?

People keep saying that we oppose the wall only because it is Trump. That is true, in a sense, because no one else has proposed such a stupid plan.

Any other politician would have an actual border security proposal which would be likely to achieve support. If Trump came up with such a proposal, then it would probably get more support.

So it isn’t Trump, it’s his stupid idea.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The evidence is in El Paso. The wall works. We also need everything else you mentioned. No one is saying we don't need the things you mentioned. We need them AND a wall.

Do you believe illegal immigrants should be apprehended and sent home?

El Paso safety is not directly explained by the wall.
Low crime in El Paso predates 'wall'; smugglers are U.S. citizens

 

[Ringo84]

Why are you against the steel slats? What kind of wall are you in favor of and why?

Why am I against a multi-billion dollar con job?

I'm for what we currently have, along with comprehensive immigration reform that gives a path to citizenship and protects DREAMers.

You just don't like the wall Trump wants because it's Trump.

I don't like what he wants because it's unnecessary and unwanted, he lied about the source of funding he'd use to build it, at the end of the day it's a monument to his racism, and because it's not worth 800K federal workers not getting paychecks.

They need a wall. El Paso has proven walls work.

That's the opposite of what my source said:
Why the Wall Won't Work

Aside from all the foolishness associated with this poorly thought out wall, there are legal issues. There are maintenance issues. Etc etc etc.

I know this must come as a yuuuge shock, but: complex issues, such as immigration, merit complex solutions. A wall covering the entire border is an easy feelgood that's probably red meat to salivating racists*, but it's not really a solution to the problems we face with immigration - which, by the way, are not nearly as drastic or close to a "crisis" as Donny would like for us to believe.

But this is the kind of foolishness that one can expect from a "president" with such a fundamental lack of curiosity and who doesn't read.


*This is not a dig at you. I'm speaking generally about Trump's base.
Ringo