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Trump to strip protections from Tongass National Forest

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by essentialsaltes, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    We certainly should understand enough by now to bring balance. Not perfectly, but much better than nature by itself does. And we are here, we are by necessaity part of nature. We can not change the fact that we will have an impact on the natural world.
     
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  2. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    One of the harder lessons we humans have had to learn over the past 400 years is that earth is not the center of the universe ;we aren’t the pinnacle of life on this planet and we don’t actually have control over it because we just don’t know enough . That biological geological and astronomical fact was fought tooth and nail by the Church . They would harass, imprison and/or murder people who found evidence that the Church was wrong about nature.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  3. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    I'm skeptical that cutting hundreds or thousands of miles of new logging roads is going to bring balance to anything.

    Mainly what I've seen are boom/bust resource extraction give aways, with the public left holding the bag come cleanup time.
     
  4. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Well from what I've seen roads aren't a bad thing. Cutting areas and leaving others creates browsing areas and also is a real boon to small game and the predators that feed on them. Old forests don't have much life in them in general.

    Here for example the gas wells create more habitat then they destroy. The deer love the well clearings that grow back up on grass and brush.
     
  5. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Actually according to scripture we are the pinnacle of life on this planet and are given stewardship over it.
     
  6. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    I live in gas country, and we are totally overwhelmed by deer. The hunters take no interest in these scrawny creatures. They all want to hunt elk in the high country. And deity forbid anyone suggest restoring proper predators to the scene. Also, anywhere damp, roads are a mess, as rainfall erosion silts and kills fish habitat in streams.
     
  7. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    . I’m going to assume you’re not literate in the sciences because that is certainly not true. We just had an earthquake in the Aegean and it wasn’t predictable because we don’t know enough geology to predict all of them .That we have any control of nature is more like a 2 year old having control of the stove . A 2 year old is more inclined to burn down the house and kill himself than to make a meal

    as far as us being the pinnacle, well among mammals that goes to the Artiodactyla , among the bilateria that goes to the insects and among life itself this is a planet of bacteria. Apes ,including humans , are a tiny branch of the primates who aren’t doing too well themselves
     
  8. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    I can see you don't subscribe to a biblical worldview.
    We are not just smart apes.
    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

    Genesis 9:2

    The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given.

    Psalm 8:6

    You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;
    You have put all things under his feet,

    Hebrews 2:8

    You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

    James 3:7

    For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race.
     
  9. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    Au contraire , we are just smart apes ! You just don’t want to believe that. At least one of these is a chimp skull and at least one is a human skull . You tell me which is which ! 65BB495A-5F1E-416E-AE9C-DD696FDCD605.jpeg FE7FD697-511D-4571-B10C-36E4436BB17E.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  10. MIDutch

    MIDutch Well-Known Member

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    You really think humans have been on the planet for BILLIONS of years? Really?

    Also, if "god" is omniscient and omnipotent, why would it need humans to manage nature? Couldn't it just snap it's fingers and make nature self managing? Like it was for the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of years before we humans showed up?

    Further, in your opinion, does "managing nature" mean ripping up everything that's green and killing or displacing everything that's wild and building buildings and parking lots? Is that your idea of managing nature?
     
  11. Sistrin

    Sistrin We are such stuff as dreams are made on... Supporter

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    Liberalism.
     
  12. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    1. Where did I say that I believed in billions of years as the beginning of nature?

    2.Because God chose to give us domain.

    3. No, but we have to have room to live. We aren't separated from the natural world, we have to make our living off of it.
    Conservation is wise use. Not no use.
     
  13. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    What? Someone is trying to get the trees to unionize?
     
  14. NerdGirl

    NerdGirl The untamed daughter

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    That is indeed, a shame.
     
  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lots of cultures believed things that amount to superstition, why is yours any different?
     
  16. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    I believe the instruction was to be good stewards of his creation. Since the first nations have co-habitated with the forest for the past 10,000 years, I suggest we should ask for their input.

    Comprising the largest intact temperate rainforest in the world, the Tongass is a place filled with islands and salmon streams, where towering mountains sweep down into thick old-growth forest and granite cliffs drop into deep fjords.

    At roughly the size of West Virginia, the Tongass National Forest is also the largest national forest in the U.S. and home to approximately 70,000 people living in 32 communities, including the state capital, Juneau.

    Alaska Natives have continuously inhabited the Tongass for more than 10,000 years, residing with salmon, bears, wolves, eagles, and whales. The first nations include the Tlingit, Haida, and Tsimshian. Living from the land is still a way of life here, a cultural tradition as well as a necessity, supported by the abundance of fish and wildlife in the region.

    Tongass National Forest - About the Forest
     
  17. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    This is not what it says:

    https://public-inspection.federalre...m_source=federalregister.gov&utm_medium=email

    The rule does not authorize any ground-disturbing activities, nor does it increase the overall amount of timber harvested from the Tongass National Forest.

    The Tongass Forest Plan along with other conservation measures, will assure protection allowing roadless area values to prevail on the Tongass National Forest while offering additional flexibility to achieve other multiple-use benefits.
     
  18. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    It doesnt say what you think it says.

    Access roads are not considered "ground-disturbing activities". (Yeah go figure...)

    It does say:
     
  19. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    Yes, resulting in no more timber being harvested as I said.
     
  20. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    I pointed out the part where you are wrong, and didnt contest the part where you are right.

    New roads in forests are quite significant. Thats exactly why you thought it important to (wrongly) announce this plan would allow no new roads.
     
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