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Trump ties with Obama as most admired man.

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Jermayn, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    That's right. And He can save anyone, even if they aren't in my club or your club. That's easily proven, unless you just don't believe the Bible.

    Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


    Neither works nor faith alone. God says:

    James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

    The same differences between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. They get some things wrong about God, even important things. But if they are sincere, they love Him, and seek to serve Him. And that is what matters in the end. A heretic who has love and compassion for his fellow men is far more fortunate than one who is theologically correct, but has no such compassion. Please get this right; theology will not save you. Loving God and loving your fellow man will save you.

    Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

    This is basic Christianity.

    Jesus says that at Judgement, there will be people who are saved but are puzzled and ask; "when did I do anything for you?" because they didn't get the theology right. And He will tell them that they did the will of God by caring for others, and are thereby saved.

    Matthew 25:37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
     
  2. Jermayn

    Jermayn Active Member

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    You still did not address this verse:

    1 John 2:22-23 22And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.f Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.g 23Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

    Muslims, and all other non-Christian religion, DOES NOT accept Jesus as the Christ. Notice this verse has no gray area. You can be the most compassionate person on earth, but if you do not acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FATHER. If you do not build your foundation on the rock (Jesus), you will be washed away when the floods come. You may not be saved by faith alone, but that doesn't mean you don't have to have faith. Do me a favor and go ask a Muslim, Atheist, or other non-Christian if they think Jesus is the Christ. When they say no, re-read the 2 verses above. I don't think this can be any clearer.
     
  3. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    I don't see it as cancelling out what Jesus says about who will be saved. As he says, it won't be those who called Him Lord, but those who did what God wants.

    It's why Jesus said it was better to be a Samaritan with charity than a believer without charity.

    Again, theology will not save you. Your charity, or lack of it, will determine your eternal home. Assuming that Jesus is right.
     
  4. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    uhmmm...you might want to read that whole chapter with those Scriptures in context before you start trying to tell people what those two isolated verses mean:
    the bolded portions are the two verses you used, but if you look at it in the context of the whole chapter you might see it's not actually saying what you want it to say. :wave:
    tulc(would remind people "a text, without a context, is a pretext for a proof text")
     
  5. Jermayn

    Jermayn Active Member

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    Jesus says in John 3:16 who will be saved. Those that believe in him. It's stated over and over again throughout the Bible that Jesus is the only way to salvation, which involves BELIEF in him as well as living faith, or faith coupled with works.
     
  6. Jermayn

    Jermayn Active Member

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    This whole chapter says exactly what I stated. Look at verse 21.

    "21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth."

    John was writing to the church; people that already believed in Jesus as the Christ. He's telling them that people who deny Jesus are antichrists and do not have the Father in them. Again, there's an abundance of passages stating that living faith, or faith coupled with works, in Jesus are required for salvation. Faith alone will not cut it, but works alone will not either.
     
  7. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Let's take a look...

    Matthew 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

    [36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.



    Jesus says you're wrong. It's stated over and over again throughout the Bible that what you do will determine your eternal home.

    Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Set pride aside, and believe what He tells you. Theology will not save you. But doing as He tells you in Matthew 25:31 will save you. You have His word on it.
     
  8. Jermayn

    Jermayn Active Member

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    All these verses you are throwing out are written to people that believe. Matthew 7:21 is referring to the difference in people that believe and don't do. Do you really think someone can go do all kinds of good works in the name of Allah or Shiva and be saved? I really hope your aren't teaching other people that, because you are leading them down a path of destruction if you are.

    Also, I'd like to hear your interpretation of this verse.

    Romans 9:10 "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
     
  9. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Nowhere does it say so. That's just your addition to scripture. In Matthew 25, Jesus says that some of the people will be puzzled and ask Him when they did anything for Him. A Christian would know that. So that excuse won't work.

    Since "Allah" is the word Arabic-speaking Christians use for God (and did, long before Islam existed), that much is clearly true. Perhaps you don't know that "God" is what Germanic-speaking Christians use in the same manner. But as you learned, Jesus makes all this clear:

    Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Romans 9:10 "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Fits precisely into God's message:
    James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

    Let it be God's way, not yours.


     
  10. Ricky M

    Ricky M Well-Known Member Supporter

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    True. Republicans serve mammon, democrats serve most every other ungodly thing.

    Which is why it is time to dump both parties.
     
  11. Ricky M

    Ricky M Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As a Christian, at this point I believe we must abandon BOTH parties.
     
  12. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

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    [​IMG]

    With all due respect, Presidents Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, Warren Harding and Franklin Pierce can all now rest peacefully in their graves, secure in the knowledge that with the election of Donald Trump, they will no longer be judged by history as America's worst president(s)!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  13. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Which is why so many evangelicals put their faith instead, in Donald Trump. Bitter people often go for demagogues who will promise everything.

    Yep. Since...
    Dow Jones up since 2010
    [​IMG]
    Unemployment falling since 2009
    [​IMG]
    Median Wage Growth up since 2010, but sluggish and growing slower than normal:
    [​IMG]
    The troubling things are, the yield curve has now inverted, which usually predicts a recession, and income inequality is getting closer to third-world levels, which predicts economic decline.
    The state of the US economy in 11 charts

    For the evangelical leaders who embraced Trump's way, it's already happened.
     
  14. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Mammon seems to be just one of the things the republicans serve. Their hero serves adultery, lying, fraud, sexual assault and racism, all of which he has been caught doing, or openly boasted about doing.
     
  15. Jermayn

    Jermayn Active Member

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    Look at that almost non-existent growth during Obama's years. The only reason everything started going up in 2015 was because everyone knew he was on his way out.
     
  16. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Let's take a look at that belief...

    [​IMG]

    Looks like you've been played. Obama took an economy in the dumpster and brought it around. Trump hasn't done quite as well, and he did it only at the cost of a huge tax cut for the rich that raised the debt to huge levels. Where Obama began to reduce deficits, Trump had greatly increased them.
    [​IMG]

    You were lied to there, also. As you now see, he began turning the economy around almost immediately.
     
  17. Jermayn

    Jermayn Active Member

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    I would understand your point of view if James 2:24 said this: Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith. But it doesn't. It says this Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? And now your saying that any name a person has for God is the same God as in the Bible? There are people that worship Satan. Are you saying that's the same God as in the Bible? Some of those people are also great people by the world's standards. Will they still be saved even though they've built the foundation of their house upon the enemy and no Jesus Christ? Stop trying to twist the Bible to suit your political ideology.

    Now, I hope this breakdown of the parable of the wise and foolish builders, found in Matthew 7:24-27 will help open your eyes to the truth that salvation is not obtained by works.

    Jerry and Bill are building a house. Jerry finds an area of land with a nice solid foundation made of rock and says "Look Bill, Lets build our house here. This rock won't erode and will hold up our houses in the event a big storm comes. Bill says "Nah Jerry, I found this spot down by the beach. It's got a beautiful view, it's nice and warm, and I'm using on the best materials with the best safety practices while I build it. Jerry goes ahead and builds his house on the solid rock foundation. It wasn't the prettiest house and it didn't really have that great of a view. Not many people wanted to visit Jerry's house. Meanwhile, Bill built a luxurious house down on the white sandy beach with a perfect view of the sunset. He cut no corners in its construction. Everyone loved to visit Bills house. One day a hurricane came blowing in from the sea, but Bill wasn't worried because his house was built strong and sturdy. "This house could withstand 200 mile per hour winds" Bill said. He invited all his family and friends over to ride out the storm. They felt safe. He tried to get Jerry to come over too, knowing his house wasn't built near as strong, but Jerry wouldn't leave his own home. "Poor Jerry" everyone thought, "His house will surely fall in this storm". The winds came and the storm surge rose and beat upon the sides of Bill's house as the water slowly eroded the sand beneath. For all his hard work and all his investment to ensure his house was as strong as possible, Bills house collapsed into the sea when the foundation was gone, and all the people inside were swept away by the sea. Back at Jerry's house, the wind beat on the sides of his house and the storm surge rose and crashed against the rock foundation, and when the storm had cleared, his house was still standing because the rock foundation never eroded away.

    Jesus is the rock foundation, the house is the works of Jerry and Bill during their life. Jerry placed his faith in Jesus and built on the rock. Bill placed his faith elsewhere and built upon the sand. Even though Bills works looked better than Jerry's, Bills did all that work on a weak foundation, and his works collapsed for it, while Jerry's stood strong. Telling people they just need to be a "good person" and they'll be saved is attractive and makes everyone feel comfortable, but in the end, if you're not "building" those good works on the rock (Jesus), your foundation is going to wash away.
     
  18. Jermayn

    Jermayn Active Member

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    Even the Washington Post won't give credit to Obama for Trumps booming economy. Even Obama himself acted like getting 3% growth was going to require a "Magic Wand".

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/23/what-biden-gets-wrong-about-trump-economy/
     
  19. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Notice that it was booming before Trump every became president. The data clearly shows you were misled.

    The difference is that while Obama was reducing the deficit almost every year, Trump has ballooned the debt once again. A tax cut without cutting spending is merely loading up your credit cards, trying to spend yourself rich. At some point,the debt has to be repaid. Trump has enacted a huge tax increase on future taxpayers.

    No point in denying it.
     
  20. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    But that's not what I told you. As you now realize, "faith alone" will not save. God says that one is justified by faith and works and not by faith only.

    I'm showing you that "Allah" is the word Arabic-speaking Christians have been using for God, long before there was a Muslim religion. We use "God" in the same way; Abraham would not have recognized "God", although "El" ("Allah" is a cognate of "El") as a title for God.

    But they don't call him "Allah" or "God"; are you saying that's the same God as in the Bible? Some of those people are also great people by the world's standards. Stop trying to twist the Bible to suit your political ideology.

    Accept that Jesus was telling the truth that He will save those who do the the will of the Father. Set pride aside, and just let it be His way.
     
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