Trump the Toddler

The Barbarian

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I suppose then you consider yourself and your family totally immune to the possibility that you will not get killed/injured by a drunk illegal alien driver, nor murdered by an illegal alien.

The data merely show that you'd be safer in a place with a lot of illegal aliens than you would be if you were in a place that did not have a lot of them.

FQLW6LJ6UQZENBOZDZMBXVA6EM.jpg



That must be some crystal ball you possess!

No crystal ball; just lots of data. As you see, you're actually safer in places with lots of illegal aliens. You could still be a victim of crime by an illegal alien, but worrying about that, would be like leaving your doors unlocked and putting a meteorite shield on your house.

Admittedly part of this is due to Obama's focus on finding and deporting dangerous criminals, instead the otherwise law-abiding illegal aliens. And yes, Trump's decision to drop that focus will put you at additional risk. But not very much, as you can see from the graph.
 
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jgarden

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Yeah irrational fear. It's irrational for those families who have had loved ones killed by illegals either through drunk driving or actually murders. Those are the tragic facts. Keep pretending as you excel in it!
589de4703149a101788b4d30-750-846.png

assault (killed) by a gun 1 in 358
killed by an illegal immigrant terrorist 1 in 138,324,873

There is far more evidence that access to handguns and semi-automatic assault rifles are a far greater threat to the general public than the few isolated incidents involving illegal immigrants, but conservatives have allowed Donald Trump to shut down the government over an irrational fear!
 
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jgarden

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But getting harmed by a terrorist is twice as likely as being hit by an asteroid. Better safe than sorry.
:swoon:
Based on "Trumpian" logic, the nation would be far better served by building a dome over the whole nation, as opposed to a border wall - given that Americans have more than a 80X greater probability of being killed by an asteroid (regional impact) than an illegal immigrant terrorist!
 
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EpiscipalMe

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I surmise because the wall is foundational to a comprehensive plan. Without the wall, no comprehensive plan is even possible. That would be like constructing a home without a foundation. Not possible yet Congress says no to the wall. Go figure.

Meh.

To say the wall is “foundational” is a bit of a stretch. There is a lot of border fences and barrier to serve as your foundation. How much more is needed or what needs upgrading needs an assessment before a Congress blindly allocates money. The 2006 and 2013 plans that Democrats supported had this kind of comprehensiveness. Trump’s temper tantrum wall demand does not.

The Wall: The real costs of a barrier between the United States and Mexico
Why the Wall Won't Work
 
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EpiscipalMe

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Based on "Trumpian" logic, the nation would be far better served by building a dome over the whole nation, as opposed to a border wall - given that Americans have more than a 80X greater probability of being killed by an asteroid (regional impact) than an illegal immigrant terrorist!

We should make the aliens pay for it.
 
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Oldmantook

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The fact that it is a stupid idea considering the technology we have today. As a Christian, however, I don't see that a priority of the country should be harming people. Perhaps you and others do, though, but that isn't a Christian point of view for sure.
Do people have walls, fences surrounding their properties to keep strangers out? Yes or no? Is that a stupid idea? Yes or no? Just what kind of advanced technology keeps all people from crossing a couple thousand miles of unprotected border? And just how is a wall not a Christian point of view?
 
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Oldmantook

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We should make the aliens pay for it.
I'm sure their dripping with money. The suitcases they carry with them for miles upon miles must be filled with cash. Or, were you referring to aliens as in the extra-terrestrial kind?
 
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Oldmantook

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The data merely show that you'd be safer in a place with a lot of illegal aliens than you would be if you were in a place that did not have a lot of them.

View attachment 249001




No crystal ball; just lots of data. As you see, you're actually safer in places with lots of illegal aliens. You could still be a victim of crime by an illegal alien, but worrying about that, would be like leaving your doors unlocked and putting a meteorite shield on your house.

Admittedly part of this is due to Obama's focus on finding and deporting dangerous criminals, instead the otherwise law-abiding illegal aliens. And yes, Trump's decision to drop that focus will put you at additional risk. But not very much, as you can see from the graph.
The graph actually does not prove what you claim. What it does depict is that illegal aliens are less prone to commit crimes than the native population. Tendencies is not the same as the actual number of crimes committed. Tendencies are influenced by the demographics of the population being surveyed. Thus the large numbers of women and children who enter this country illegally compared with the normal dispersion of native population skews the tendency as women/children do not normally commit crimes. The fact is that crimes committed by illegals number in the thousands ranging from petty misdemeanors to capitol offenses. The bottom line is, if they were not here in the first place, those crimes would have not occurred.
 
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Oldmantook

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589de4703149a101788b4d30-750-846.png

assault (killed) by a gun 1 in 358
killed by an illegal immigrant terrorist 1 in 138,324,873

There is far more evidence that access to handguns and semi-automatic assault rifles are a far greater threat to the general public than the few isolated incidents involving illegal immigrants, but conservatives have allowed Donald Trump to shut down the government over an irrational fear!
Sorry but your argument holds very little water. Stats can be manipulated to back whatever claim you/others wish to make. The problem is while the stat cited is generally accurate as "refugee terrorists" do not historically have a significant occurrence, it is misleading. For example, I could with great accuracy state that the chances of you getting into an accident within a mile of your residence is very high. That would be a true statement because you likely frequently drive anywhere within in a mile of your home on a daily basis. Conversely, the chances of you getting into an accident in another municipality or State is quite low as you do infrequently or ever, drive in those areas. Thus your neighborhood is not "accident prone" - only that you drive there more frequently compared to other areas. Same thing with the "refugee terrorist" statistic. The odds of that happening is quite low, however if they remained in their own country and never entered here in the first place the possibility of a terrorist attack is absolutely zero. What do you prefer? The odds of a refugee terrorist in this attack in this country being low or zero.
Moreover, it's like comparing apples and oranges. While the odds of a terrorist attack are quite remote, not so remote are the odds of other crimes perpetrated by illegals ranging from petty misdemeanors to capitol offenses.
 
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EpiscipalMe

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Do people have walls, fences surrounding their properties to keep strangers out? Yes or no? Is that a stupid idea? Yes or no? Just what kind of advanced technology keeps all people from crossing a couple thousand miles of unprotected border? And just how is a wall not a Christian point of view?

Again a wall supporter conflates securing your own yard with securing the border. Apples and oranges.

I'm sure their dripping with money. The suitcases they carry with them for miles upon miles must be filled with cash. Or, were you referring to aliens as in the extra-terrestrial kind?

The latter.

The graph actually does not prove what you claim. What it does depict is that illegal aliens are less prone to commit crimes than the native population. Tendencies is not the same as the actual number of crimes committed. Tendencies are influenced by the demographics of the population being surveyed. Thus the large numbers of women and children who enter this country illegally compared with the normal dispersion of native population skews the tendency as women/children do not normally commit crimes. The fact is that crimes committed by illegals number in the thousands ranging from petty misdemeanors to capitol offenses. The bottom line is, if they were not here in the first place, those crimes would have not occurred.

There are numerous studies showing that immigrants, especially illegal ones, are less likely to commit violent crimes that US citizens.

You are right - if the illegal immigrant were not here then the crime would not be committed. However, to then make the leap that the wall would have stopped that person from coming is not supported by evidence.

Sorry but your argument holds very little water. Stats can be manipulated to back whatever claim you/others wish to make. The problem is while the stat cited is generally accurate as "refugee terrorists" do not historically have a significant occurrence, it is misleading. For example, I could with great accuracy state that the chances of you getting into an accident within a mile of your residence is very high. That would be a true statement because you likely frequently drive anywhere within in a mile of your home on a daily basis. Conversely, the chances of you getting into an accident in another municipality or State is quite low as you do infrequently or ever, drive in those areas. Thus your neighborhood is not "accident prone" - only that you drive there more frequently compared to other areas. Same thing with the "refugee terrorist" statistic. The odds of that happening is quite low, however if they remained in their own country and never entered here in the first place the possibility of a terrorist attack is absolutely zero. What do you prefer? The odds of a refugee terrorist in this attack in this country being low or zero.
Moreover, it's like comparing apples and oranges. While the odds of a terrorist attack are quite remote, not so remote are the odds of other crimes perpetrated by illegals ranging from petty misdemeanors to capitol offenses.

The data presented is perfect for the argument. The discussion was regarding whether we should panic at the thought of an illegal alien coming to harm us. The answer is no - any one of us is much more likely to die from something else.
 
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The Barbarian

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The graph actually does not prove what you claim.

It demonstrates what I told you.

What it does depict is that illegal aliens are less prone to commit crimes than the native population.

Yes. This is why you are safer in an area with many illegal aliens. They are less likely to commit violent crimes.

Tendencies is not the same as the actual number of crimes committed. Tendencies are influenced by the demographics of the population being surveyed. Thus the large numbers of women and children who enter this country illegally compared with the normal dispersion of native population skews the tendency as women/children do not normally commit crimes.

That excuse won't work, either, unless you can show that illegal aliens include more women and children than native-born Americans do. And the opposite is true.

The fact is that crimes committed by illegals number in the thousands ranging from petty misdemeanors to capitol offenses.

They still commit crimes. Just fewer crimes than native-born Americans. This is why you are safer in areas with lots of illegal aliens.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Do people have walls, fences surrounding their properties to keep strangers out? Yes or no? Is that a stupid idea? Yes or no? Just what kind of advanced technology keeps all people from crossing a couple thousand miles of unprotected border? And just how is a wall not a Christian point of view?
I don't. I don't because it would be a waste of money and a stupid idea for me to do that. I have police who are much more effective.

What kind of advanced technology? Cameras, satellites, helicopters, air surveillance...

Do you think more people have walls around their homes or home security systems that work with cameras, sensors, etc. and rely on notifying the authorities in emergencies?

It sounds like you grew up in King Arthur's time when moats and castle walls were the best security.
 
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The Barbarian

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Sorry but your argument holds very little water. Stats can be manipulated to back whatever claim you/others wish to make.

Ah, yes. At the end, with all exits blocked, it's "They're lying! All of them are lying!!"
 
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