Trump tells lies about Germany (Moved From Current News & Events)

[helmut]

I'm German, and in our media there are occasionally news about some tweets from president Trump. In the last days it were tweets in which he talks about Germany.

It's true that we got some problems with migrants. In 2015, almost one million refugees came to Germany, and there have been several thousands criminal among them. It took some time until these subjects were known to the police, so there was a time when the number of criminal actions increased.
But now the situation is under control, last year the number of criminal acts decreased about 10%. By and large, people requesting political asylum are no more criminal than the Germans - there are ethnic group with a relative high percentage of criminals (e.g.Northwest Africans, Albanians), while other groups (Syrians and Iranians) are less criminal than the ordinary German.

When Trump says that people of Germany are turning against their leadership, this is a half-truth. There is xenophobe propaganda against immigrants (denouncing them a criminals and so on), there is political trouble because the CSU party goes right-wing in an attempt to chase voters from the radical right-wing AfD, rocking the coalition. And there are people who swallow racist or hate speech against refugees. But if you look to the facts, there is no reason to turn against the leadership because of immigrants.
Up to now, there have been more immigrants killed in Germany by Nazi mob than Germans killed by immigrants (terror attacks included). This is fact.

So the bubbling about "Crime in Germany is way up" is propaganda, presumably taken from some radical right (half Nazi or worse) website. In wonder whether Trump is so naive to swallow such propaganda or whether he lies intentionally.

PS: Any hints how I can improve my English are welcome.

 

[HereIStand]

Suppressing news of crimes committed by migrants and the specter of a right-wing is what the German government uses to keep the populace in line. It's the same elsewhere in Europe. In fact, the French novel Submission imagines France in 2022 in which a Muslim party comes to power by aligning with the Socialist party. It's not hard to imagine such a scenario playing out.

 

[David Kent]

So the bubbling about "Crime in Germany is way up" is propaganda, presumably taken from some radical right (half Nazi or worse) website. In wonder whether Trump is so naive to swallow such propaganda or whether he lies intentionally.

Your English seems fine to me, Better than some Americans I have met on line.

 

[Albion]

So the bubbling about "Crime in Germany is way up" is propaganda, presumably taken from some radical right (half Nazi or worse) website. In wonder whether Trump is so naive to swallow such propaganda or whether he lies intentionally.

It is not propaganda if the facts support it--which they do. But if you are especially concerned that lies are being told about Germany, I would recommend that you check out the claims made in the past several days by opposition politicians here in which it was claimed that holding unescorted children in schools and dormitories is like the Holocaust! Now, that's both a lie and propaganda!

 

[tulc]

Suppressing news of crimes committed by migrants and the specter of a right-wing is what the German government uses to keep the populace in line. It's the same elsewhere in Europe. In fact, the French novel Submission imagines France in 2022 in which a Muslim party comes to power by aligning with the Socialist party. It's not hard to imagine such a scenario playing out. (emph. added)

Links to support the bolded?
tulc(just wondering)

 

[grasping the after wind]

I'm German, and in our media there are occasionally news about some tweets from president Trump. In the last days it were tweets in which he talks about Germany.

It's true that we got some problems with migrants. In 2015, almost one million refugees came to Germany, and there have been several thousands criminal among them. It took some time until these subjects were known to the police, so there was a time when the number of criminal actions increased.
But now the situation is under control, last year the number of criminal acts decreased about 10%. By and large, people requesting political asylum are no more criminal than the Germans - there are ethnic group with a relative high percentage of criminals (e.g.Northwest Africans, Albanians), while other groups (Syrians and Iranians) are less criminal than the ordinary German.

When Trump says that people of Germany are turning against their leadership, this is a half-truth. There is xenophobe propaganda against immigrants (denouncing them a criminals and so on), there is political trouble because the CSU party goes right-wing in an attempt to chase voters from the radical right-wing AfD, rocking the coalition. And there are people who swallow racist or hate speech against refugees. But if you look to the facts, there is no reason to turn against the leadership because of immigrants.
Up to now, there have been more immigrants killed in Germany by Nazi mob than Germans killed by immigrants (terror attacks included). This is fact.

So the bubbling about "Crime in Germany is way up" is propaganda, presumably taken from some radical right (half Nazi or worse) website. In wonder whether Trump is so naive to swallow such propaganda or whether he lies intentionally.

PS: Any hints how I can improve my English are welcome.

Your English is fine. One piece of advice I would have is to ignore whatever a foreign national says about your country. Their opinion is not useful as they are not only biased in favor of whatever they feel is the correct policy for a country to follow but they are usually ignorant about what makes another country unique and what motivates its citizenry. Too many people feel insecure unless they see that everyone agrees with doing things exactly the way they themselves do things. They refuse to understand that one size does not fit all.

 

[helmut]

Suppressing news of crimes committed by migrants and the specter of a right-wing is what the German government uses to keep the populace in line.

Do you have any evidence for that?

There is much evidence of propaganda against refugees. A case that is known to almost all Germans is the case of Lisa, a "Russian German" girl (i.e. of the German minority in the USSR which re-immigrated into Germany). To lessen trouble with her parents, she pretended to have been abducted and raped by a refugee - which turned out not to be the case (she had an improper relation ship with a refugee, that person has been convicted for having sex with a girl under the age of consent).

The most abominable case was a photo of refugees standing at a church wall. According to the comment, it were Muslims [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing at the church, and if you only saw the photo and the comment you might well believe it. But it was a photo of Ethiopian Christians, who prayed as they used to do in their home country: standing outside the church and behaving almost like Jews at the Wailing Wall.

The figures about criminal statistic are given out by the police, which is not under the control of the central government (as the law enforcement in the US is not under presidential control). It is technically impossible for the government to lie in that point. It might be possible for a Länderregierung (roughly comparable to a state government in the US), but e.g. the Bavarian government (CSU party, no coalition) will not do it (just think of a tea party member lying in favor of Obama, and you know what I mean ). And the press would detect discrepancies, if one land would lie and another not ...

 

[HereIStand]

Do you have any evidence for that?

There is much evidence of propaganda against refugees. A case that is known to almost all Germans is the case of Lisa, a "Russian German" girl (i.e. of the German minority in the USSR which re-immigrated into Germany). To lessen trouble with her parents, she pretended to have been abducted and raped by a refugee - which turned out not to be the case (she had an improper relation ship with a refugee, that person has been convicted for having sex with a girl under the age of consent).

The most abominable case was a photo of refugees standing at a church wall. According to the comment, it were Muslims [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] at the church, and if you only saw the photo and the comment you might well believe it. But it was a photo of Ethiopian Christians, who prayed as they used to do in their home country: standing outside the church and behaving almost like Jews at the Wailing Wall.

The figures about criminal statistic are given out by the police, which is not under the control of the central government (as the law enforcement in the US is not under presidential control). It is technically impossible for the government to lie in that point. It might be possible for a Länderregierung (roughly comparable to a state government in the US), but e.g. the Bavarian government (CSU party, no coalition) will not do it (just think of a tea party member lying in favor of Obama, and you know what I mean ). And the press would detect discrepancies, if one land would lie and another not ...

Evidence? Yes. For starters, read the book the Strange Death of Europe. It's probably been translated into German. Beyond this, the mass rape of German women in Cologne on New Year's Eve in 2016 has been discussed in numerous videos. This is one.

That's really only the part of what is happening. One problem is the police only report migrants that are actually charged. With Muslim migrants, the government doesn't want to file any charges. Or in certain cases, it suppresses the fact the immigrants are Muslim. Criminals appear in the press as "Asian gangs" or by some other vague designation in some parts of Europe so the government can mask their Muslim identity.

 

[ubicaritas]

Evidence? Yes. For starters, read the book the Strange Death of Europe. It's probably been translated into German. Beyond this, the mass rape of German women in Cologne on New Year's Eve in 2016 has been discussed in numerous videos. This is one.

That's really only the part of what is happening. One problem is the police only report migrants that are actually charged. With Muslim migrants, the government doesn't want to file any charges. Or in certain cases, it suppresses the fact the immigrants are Muslim. Criminals appear in the press as "Asian gangs" or by some other vague designation in some parts of Europe so the government can mask their Muslim identity.

In the incident in Cologne on new years, the overwhelming majority of perpetrators were white Europeans who were drunk. Only 4 were from Muslim countries.

'Only 3 men arrested for Cologne sex attacks were refugees - it's time to bust the Muslim rape myth'

 

[HereIStand]

In the incident in Cologne on new years, the overwhelming majority of perpetrators were white Europeans who were drunk. Only 4 were from Muslim countries.

'Only 3 men arrested for Cologne sex attacks were refugees - it's time to bust the Muslim rape myth'

The German police confirmed the opposite. Read the book The Strange Death of Europe by Douglas Murray. At first "the police in Cologne and elsewhere strenuously attempted to conceal the identities of the [rape] culprits. Only when video and photographic evidence from the scenes were shared on social media and confirmed in the mass media did the police admit that the suspects were all of North African and Middle Eastern appearance." p. 197

 

[Albion]

In the incident in Cologne on new years, the overwhelming majority of perpetrators were white Europeans who were drunk. Only 4 were from Muslim countries.

'Only 3 men arrested for Cologne sex attacks were refugees - it's time to bust the Muslim rape myth'

I notice that you said here that, of the perpetrators,...only 4 were from Muslim countries, but the article you linked to said something else.

the Cologne prosecutor Ulrich Bremer in fact told me that, of the 59 suspects pinpointed so far, just four are from war-torn countries (Syria and Iraq), only 14 are in custody, and nobody has yet been charged.

 

[Yarddog]

I'm German, and in our media there are occasionally news about some tweets from president Trump. In the last days it were tweets in which he talks about Germany.

It's true that we got some problems with migrants. In 2015, almost one million refugees came to Germany, and there have been several thousands criminal among them. It took some time until these subjects were known to the police, so there was a time when the number of criminal actions increased.
But now the situation is under control, last year the number of criminal acts decreased about 10%. By and large, people requesting political asylum are no more criminal than the Germans - there are ethnic group with a relative high percentage of criminals (e.g.Northwest Africans, Albanians), while other groups (Syrians and Iranians) are less criminal than the ordinary German.

When Trump says that people of Germany are turning against their leadership, this is a half-truth. There is xenophobe propaganda against immigrants (denouncing them a criminals and so on), there is political trouble because the CSU party goes right-wing in an attempt to chase voters from the radical right-wing AfD, rocking the coalition. And there are people who swallow racist or hate speech against refugees. But if you look to the facts, there is no reason to turn against the leadership because of immigrants.
Up to now, there have been more immigrants killed in Germany by Nazi mob than Germans killed by immigrants (terror attacks included). This is fact.

So the bubbling about "Crime in Germany is way up" is propaganda, presumably taken from some radical right (half Nazi or worse) website. In wonder whether Trump is so naive to swallow such propaganda or whether he lies intentionally.

PS: Any hints how I can improve my English are welcome.

Your English is great.

 

[Claudia Zimmer]

Here are the official crime numbers in detail and how they developped over the years (german) BKA - PKS 2017 - PKS 2017 - Zeitreihen Übersicht Falltabellen.

If you look closely at them, you find some strange numbers and some facts that support Trump's view and others that support Merkel's view.

First: the total crime numbers went down 10% since 2016

Second: there are some incredible decreases within the last 2-3 years and you can ask yourself if that can be true.

• robberies on streets: the lowest numbers since 1990. Decrease from 21.349 in 2013 to 16.233 in 2017 (line 1667) while the percentage of foreigners increased from 32.3% to 40.2%
• The numbers for trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation went down from 284 in 2016 to 71 in 2017 (line 2452)
• professional trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation went down from 93 in 2016 to 8 in 2017 (percentage of foreigeners 94.4% – line 2491). Could it be that german authorities don’t accuse immigrants and throw those cases out of the statistics?
• a fluctuation of numbers that has never happened before is the decrease of thefts from restaurants from 35.002 in 2016 to 29.472 in 2017 (line 2920)
• numbers of load thefts reach an all-time low. Ask the shopkeepers in big towns and you will see that this is not true. They don’t tell the police about the thefts because the robbers stand in the shop again after they have been 2 hours at the police station. It just makes no sense to inform the police.

Third: If you look at the official numbers you find all-time highs of crime numbers like extortion on a sexual basis (line 6843), resistence to the state (in 2016 & 2017 – line 6873), domestic disturbances (line 6936), drug-related offenses (line 9987) and computer crime (line 11446). These are indeed frightening numbers.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I notice that you said here that, of the perpetrators,...only 4 were from Muslim countries, but the article you linked to said something else.

the Cologne prosecutor Ulrich Bremer in fact told me that, of the 59 suspects pinpointed so far, just four are from war-torn countries (Syria and Iraq), only 14 are in custody, and nobody has yet been charged.

Most of the hordes that Merkel let in aren't from Syria or Iraq either. Given that so many of them lack any documentation, in many cases nobody really knows where they are.

Up to now, there have been more immigrants killed in Germany by Nazi mob than Germans killed by immigrants (terror attacks included). This is fact.

As far as I'm aware, no Nazi ever plowed his truck into a Christmas market...

 

[Claudia Zimmer]

Violence scares me whether it comes from Nazis or from Antifa or from immigrants. I moved to Karlsruhe in 1998. Back then it was no problem at all to walk through the streets in the middle of the night. I had no fear, and there was no threat. Try it nowadays. Even men don't walk through the town at night allone. A lot of men from africa use knives to blackmail mobil phones and money or to harass women. This is what I experienced. Now I live on the countryside, here it is still better.

 

[LaSorcia]

MOD HAT DONNED

This thread has been moved from Current News & Events to International Politics due to the nature of the topic.

MOD HAT DOFFED

 

[helmut]

One piece of advice I would have is to ignore whatever a foreign national says about your country.

My concern was that Americans might believe that, and I wanted to contribute to the awareness that hat Trump says is contrary to the facts.
I'm German and I am not a fan of Merkel, I listen occasionally to foreign stations as, say, Euronews, BBC or al-Jazeera, so I can say with confidence that I know what I'm speaking about.

 

[helmut]

In the incident in Cologne on new years, the overwhelming majority of perpetrators were white Europeans who were drunk. Only 4 were from Muslim countries.

'Only 3 men arrested for Cologne sex attacks were refugees - it's time to bust the Muslim rape myth'

Sorry, this is not true. There were groups of North Africans who acted like similar groups acted against female protesters in Cairo during the so-called "Arab spring".
The problem was: it was hard to nail any of them down to put him to justice. No clear video proof (you could not identify the faces on the videos, bad quality), witnesses having difficulties to tell one N-Afr face from another.
On the other hand: They were no refugees from the 2015 wave, they were (as far as it is known) here for years. And not from the usual countries like Afghanistan, Eritrea or Nigeria.

 

[helmut]

Evidence? Yes. For starters, read the book the Strange Death of Europe.

Give a proven example, not a quote from a book that might be biased.

Beyond this, the mass rape of German women in Cologne on New Year's Eve in 2016 has been discussed in numerous videos. This is one.

It was not mass raping. It was mass harassing (grabbing at a "kitten" that Trump, according to his own words, also used to grab at, or similar types of harassing). In many cases, the main objective of these men was the theft of the wallet of the women (and occasionally men), the harassing rather an (abominable) by-product.

That's really only the part of what is happening. One problem is the police only report migrants that are actually charged.

Well, the figures of the German criminal statistics show the number of cases were someone (i.e. any person or victim) makes a criminal charge against another person (which might be not known).
And it has often be a point of discussions that foreigners (like black people in the US) are more often charged that Germans (resp. whites in US), because of racial prejudices. If you look on the figure of convicted persons, the figures are somewhat less biased towards foreigner criminality.

With Muslim migrants, the government doesn't want to file any charges.

Well, I don't know whether the government (did you mean the German Government or the government of North-Rhine-Westphalia, the Bundesland where Cologne is located?) has any wishes about filing of charges. Fact is: It has no possibility to influence this. If you go to a police station and accuse someone, your charge will be filed. Is this different from the US, or how to you come to fancy our government(s) would mess into the matter?

Or in certain cases, it suppresses the fact the immigrants are Muslim.

That is true, as a reaction to xenophobic behavior, the police acquired the tendency to suppress information about ethnic membership of suspects. But if you look to the Kriminalstatistik, you get the facts.

Criminals appear in the press as "Asian gangs" or by some other vague designation in some parts of Europe so the government can mask their Muslim identity.

Well, we have ethnic groups that are more criminal than others. Albanians (Muslim majority), North Africans (virtually 100% Muslim), Russians (overwhelming non.-Muslims), Romani people (100% non-Muslims) are some instances of this.
As you can see, the concrete group is more important than the religion. This can be seen also in the fact I already mentioned: Syrians (overwhelming Muslims) are less criminal than Germans in Germany.
"Asian gangs" is non-informative - 60% of all men are Asians, from Siberian Russians to Vietnamese, from Saudis to Japanese. It is a fair guess that culturally non-Asians are slightly less diverse than Asians. But do you have specific information that these "gangs" are Muslim and not, say, Vietnamese?

 

[helmut]

• "Second: there are some incredible decreases within the last 2-3 years and you can ask yourself if that can be true.

Well, as to incredible ... some decline has to do with better work of the police. Burglary was a great problem, with a new software to predict probable areas of next cases it was possible to nail down several gangs specified on burglary.

• robberies on streets: the lowest numbers since 1990. Decrease from 21.349 in 2013 to 16.233 in 2017 (line 1667) while the percentage of foreigners increased from 32.3% to 40.2%

In other words: the number of foreigners charged of committing robbery on the street is nearly constant, the number of Germans declined about 32,8%.

• The numbers for trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation went down from 284 in 2016 to 71 in 2017 (line 2452)
  [*]professional trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation went down from 93 in 2016 to 8 in 2017 (percentage of foreigeners 94.4% – line 2491). Could it be that german authorities don’t accuse immigrants and throw those cases out of the statistics?

Well, a new law (Prostituiertenschutzgesetz) makes it hard to find such crimes, and to prove them. This is contrary to the purpose of that law, but in accordance to what Christian and other activists predicted.

• numbers of load thefts reach an all-time low. Ask the shopkeepers in big towns and you will see that this is not true. They don’t tell the police about the thefts because the robbers stand in the shop again after they have been 2 hours at the police station. It just makes no sense to inform the police.

You yourself mention the reason for the decline.

Edit: Now the quotes are ok ...