Trump supports Iranian protesters

[Mountainmanbob]

Trump is standing strong for those desiring freedom.
M-Bob

 

[RDKirk]

So are we going for an Iranian Spring?

 

[The Barbarian]

The people who rule Iran are delighted that Trump stepped in. Now, they will declare that the protesters are his agents.

Trump, as usual, has become a patsy for our enemies.

 

[grasping the after wind]

The people who rule Iran are delighted that Trump stepped in. Now, they will declare that the protesters are his agents.

Trump, as usual, has become a patsy for our enemies.

Do you really think they would not have done that anyway? Just what super slick advantage would one get by not supporting the protesters? I know "Trump did it. It must, by definition, be the wrong thing to do". Despite what some think, Doing what has not worked in the past ( kissing up to our enemies, offering them bribes and trying not to offend them by telling the truth or supporting those that oppose them ) may not work in the future either.

 

[The Barbarian]

Do you really think they would not have done that anyway?

But Trump helped them. We should not be aiding our enemies. And it's a sad thing that the president isn't bright enough to avoid doing so.

Despite what some think, Doing what has not worked in the past ( kissing up to our enemies, offering them bribes and trying not to offend them by telling the truth or supporting those that oppose them ) may not work in the future either.

Sanctions worked very well, ending their nuclear arms program. Ironically, it seems to also triggered the latest protests, as the money coming in from oil sales failed to raise the standard of living for the average Iranian, as they expected.

 

[grasping the after wind]

But Trump helped them. We should not be aiding our enemies. And it's a sad thing that the president isn't bright enough to avoid doing so.



Sanctions worked very well, ending their nuclear arms program. Ironically, it seems to also triggered the latest protests, as the money coming in from oil sales failed to raise the standard of living for the average Iranian, as they expected.

Ending their nuclear arms program? In what alternate universe did that happen. Same one North Korea ended theirs in, I suppose. I would like to see the logical progression linking an imaginary (even a real one) end to a nuclear arms program to protests motivated by a perceived unfulfilled higher standard of living due to not sharing oil sale money by theocrats that never promised a higher standard of living in the first place. I am a bit skeptical that people in Iran would risk their lives to protest over their standard of living not keeping up with some expectations they might have had. We are talking about Iranians here not white upper middle class American liberals who will protest the most minor inconveniences because they have no reason to fear there will be repercussions of any kind and they enjoy the camaraderie. You don't do that in a country where speaking up against anything might get you killed or tortured. Not unless you are doing it for something you are willing to die or be tortured for. A slightly higher standard of living is hardly that kind of thing.

 

[The Barbarian]

Ending their nuclear arms program? In what alternate universe did that happen.

It's called "reality." And they've poured concrete into the reactor that they needed to go forward. And inspectors are continuing to monitor the agreement, which can be rescinded at any time cheating is detected.

Same one North Korea ended theirs in, I suppose.

North Koreans haven't agreed to any of that. You've confused Iran and North Korea.

I would like to see the logical progression linking an imaginary (even a real one) end to a nuclear arms program to protests motivated by a perceived unfulfilled higher standard of living due to not sharing oil sale money by theocrats that never promised a higher standard of living in the first place.

Doesn't matter. The expectations of the Iranian people were that it would happen. And that was all that was necessary.

Sanctions Are Lifting, But Iranians Are Still Waiting For The Benefits
Sanctions Are Lifting, But Iranians Are Still Waiting For The Benefits

I am a bit skeptical that people in Iran would risk their lives to protest over their standard of living not keeping up with some expectations they might have had. We are talking about Iranians here not white upper middle class American liberals who will protest the most minor inconveniences because they have no reason to fear there will be repercussions of any kind and they enjoy the camaraderie.

You still don't get it. They are hurting, the regime blamed Obama for imposing sanctions that drastically cut their income, and now that the sanctions are ending, they expect improvement. The problem is that the rulers depend on the corrupt Republican Guard, which grabbed most of the money. Now there's huge resentment, which is breaking out in protests.

You don't do that in a country where speaking up against anything might get you killed or tortured. Not unless you are doing it for something you are willing to die or be tortured for. A slightly higher standard of living is hardly that kind of thing.

Historically, revolutions tend to break out in times of rising expectations, not in really hard times. Would you like to learn about some of that?

 

[Yarddog]

Trump is standing strong for those desiring freedom.
M-Bob

As long as they don't come to get it.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Trump is standing strong for those desiring freedom.
M-Bob

I'm always for more liberty, but I suspect that mass uprisings typically don't result in a paradise of freedom. They seem more to end up in anarchy, violence, and tyranny.

I think the US should always encourage and promote individual liberty, but understand that populist uprisings aren't necessarily pro-liberty or if they start as pro-liberty don't necessarily end with liberty. For populist moments, one always has to ask "what's next" when thinking about whether or not to support. What's in the best interest of the US is often stability, especially when outcomes are highly volatile and uncertain. I don't see how the US would benefit from a collapsing Iranian state.

I think Obama made this mistake with the Arab Spring. The Arab Spring seemed to be a populist movement wanting to overthrow a dictator in favor of democracy, but the popular preference on the streets seemed to be for a different from of tyranny.