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Trump supporters, please explain something to me..

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Kentonio, Jan 12, 2020.

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  1. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think it would be a very unwise thing to try to pull off when more people want Trump removed from office than don't, at least according to the polls.
    A trial with all the witnesses that have actual information such as Guiliani, Pompeo, Bolton, etc., who are all Trump people, could put this investigation to bed.
    Why doesn't Trump want to do that? I've been trying to come up with more reasons why he might night. Is it because he's using it on the campaign trail to garner sympathy?
     
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  2. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    This is my take, as I have said before I may be wrong.

    Trump doesn't care what his haters think, he cares about his legacy with an acquittal in his resume.

    I don't think (could be wrong) there will be an acquittal if McConnell is successful in what I have said.

    This is what I have thought it's about all along. But let me say again, I may be wrong.
     
  3. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    This isn't about fairness. Neither side cares about being fair or conducting impeachment hearings in a bipartisan manner. That's the exact problem. It's a partisan affair where each side is going to complain about the other and do things in a way which is beneficial to their own.

    If the Democrat's aren't being fair in the house, why does Trump have to respect them and the people they want to talk to?
     
  4. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would think he would want an acquittal to answer to the impeachment charges, they don't go away no matter what McConnell does. It will always be on his legacy that he was impeached by the House.
     
  5. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How were the Dems. not fair, they followed the rules that were written by the Republicans for the Clinton Benghazi investigation, etc.

    Correction - the rules written and followed by the Republicans in every oversight investigation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  6. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    Yes, he will always carry the impeachment. But he will not carry an acquittal (if I am correct) that says maybe he was guilty. It will be obvious it was a sham from the House, because the Senate didn't even try it.
     
  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Sorry, but for the Senate not to call the central witnesses will clearly be a 'sham trial' (if that happens, if Bolton, McGahn and such don't testify to the Senate)....
     
  8. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    Well, there's another side to the story that says the House didn't do their job in proving that there should be a trial.

    Only the haters of Trump will refuse to acknowledge this.
     
  9. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't agree because the Republicans are in control of the Senate and McConnell has already stated that he has met with Trump and he will do what Trump wants.
    It would only look like a sham if Dems. in the Senate didn't even try.
     
  11. yougottabekidding

    yougottabekidding Well-Known Member

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    Can you cite a precedent when the Senate called additional witnesses? I don't recall that happening in either the Nixon nor Clinton Impeachment.
     
  12. stevil

    stevil Godless and without morals

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    The rules of impeachment are that the House have a vote, and if that vote is successful then the Senate must have a trial.
     
  13. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    On the ultimate level this is all a tempest in a teapot. If trump disappeared tomorrow, or got reelected, or whatever -- it isn't really that important. We need to step back and keep our eyes on Christ, primarily. First and last.
     
  14. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    The reason I have a problem with it is because it's not the Senate's job to do what the House should have done to begin with. If they wanted these particular witnesses to testify, then they should have allowed the Courts to enforce any of these subpoenas. But they didn't want to go that route though. It might take too long, and that this matter of removing Trump from office was urgent. Which then got contradicted by the fact of Pelosi delaying sending the articles to the Senate.

    So in my mind, they put plan B into effect, which involves what Schumer has been doing, by making it look like a cover up on the Senate Republicans part, if they don't succumb to Pelosi's demands.

    So in my view, I don't have problems with witnesses at the trial, but at the same time, by allowing the witnesses the House Dems want, this would indicate, not only did they get away with their dirty tricks in the House hearings, they continue to get away with their dirty tricks in the Senate hearings as well.
     
  15. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Edited for more clarity and details.
    In previous impeachments, we didn't see the President contravening the Constitution with a wholesale order to try to block all witnesses and documents from Congress. Not until now.

    Many testified anyway, in spite of the order:
    The differences between Trump's impeachment and Clinton's

    But, as I was posting just above, in the end, this will all not matter that much. Either we will have a good Senate trial, or none, or a bad one, and all of those scenarios will seem to matter, and will kind of matter in a very temporary way, but in the ultimate ways they will not matter. One could pray that Trump turn to Christ and repent though, for his own sake. (I'm suggesting the same prayer I made) One can pray for our Nation generally, that we turn more to God, and less to the world.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  16. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    Nope, I thought so too! But I found a couple of months ago that is not true.

    The Constitution says that "the Senate has sole power to conduct impeachment trials."

    This is why Polosi held the articles demanding certain things that would take place in the trial.

    She has no argument, it is solely in the hands of the Senate when she sends the articles and the Senate can try the trail anyway they see fit.

    The House is completely out of it.
     
  17. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    Now that I agree with and will support!

    Politics must not come before Christ.
     
  18. yougottabekidding

    yougottabekidding Well-Known Member

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    Not accurate:

    The Clinton administration invoked executive privilege on fourteen occasions. In 1998, President Bill Clinton became the first president since Nixon to assert executive privilege and lose in court, when a federal judge ruled that Clinton aides could be called to testify in the Lewinsky scandal.​

    In BOTH cases, it was the HOUSE that took the issue to court and got the testimonies they needed - They did NOT turn it over to the Senate until it was complete. They did not rush it through and it was a bi partisan vote to impeach
     
  19. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nixon resigned before he was impeached so there weren't any hearings or a trial. Before Nixon resigned he tried to keep from turning over audiotapes claiming executive privilege but the SCOTUS ruled that he had to turn them over to the investigators.

    There were 41 witnesses called at Andrew Johnson's trial, 25 by the prosecution and 16 by the defense. There were 3 at Bill Clinton's, they were deposed by the House managers and videotaped, then portions of the videos determined to be relevant by Senators were played for the whole Senate.
    Ken Starr, the Special Prosecutor, questioned all the witnesses he wanted to including President Clinton.
     
  20. yougottabekidding

    yougottabekidding Well-Known Member

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    That is because the HOUSE let it go through the courts - like they are supposed to.
     
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