Trump on Russian gas imports to Germany

mindlight

See in the dark
Supporter
Dec 20, 2003
13,596
2,659
London, UK
✟816,690.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Trump thinks that Germany is "totally controlled by Russia" because of its high level of natural gas imports from Russia.

1) Is this true?
2) Why is he saying it ahead of a meeting with Putin and with NATO heads?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44780489
 

HereIStand

Regular Member
Supporter
Jul 6, 2006
4,080
3,083
✟317,987.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,364.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
It is true that you will be much dependent on who you get your energy from. Japan's lack of energy is what prompted the attack on Pearl Harbor. To understand Trump's tactics here, you have to look at the full picture. He has chided the EU nations for taking a free ride in NATO, and for inequitable tariffs against the US. Rather than deal with those problems, Germany is turning toward Russia for solutions. As with Russia, Germany is resisting or rejecting the US sanctions on Iran. Other sources of gas are available, including a pipeline under construction coming up from the South.

Trump is trying to draw Germany back to closer relations with the US, but on on more equitable financial basis. The hammer he wields is potential tariffs on Germany's auto industry, which is its huge moneymaker. So far it doesn't seem to be working in Merkel's case, but the US has nothing to lose by imposing 20% tariffs on German cars. It will bring the US more jobs and a better balance sheet. But it will be devastating to the German economy.
 
Upvote 0

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,998
19,441
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟488,914.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
It is true that you will be much dependent on who you get your energy from. Japan's lack of energy is what prompted the attack on Pearl Harbor. To understand Trump's tactics here, you have to look at the full picture. He has chided the EU nations for taking a free ride in NATO, and for inequitable tariffs against the US. Rather than deal with those problems, Germany is turning toward Russia for solutions. As with Russia, Germany is resisting or rejecting the US sanctions on Iran. Other sources of gas are available, including a pipeline under construction coming up from the South.

Trump is trying to draw Germany back to closer relations with the US, but on on more equitable financial basis. The hammer he wields is potential tariffs on Germany's auto industry, which is its huge moneymaker. So far it doesn't seem to be working in Merkel's case, but the US has nothing to lose by imposing 20% tariffs on German cars. It will bring the US more jobs and a better balance sheet. But it will be devastating to the German economy.
I think most germans would prefer if Merkel didn't cave in to the demands, even if it costs a few jobs.
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,364.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I think most germans would prefer if Merkel didn't cave in to the demands, even if it costs a few jobs.
A "few" jobs? That's what you think it would amount to? Fine. Have it your way. Trump's message is that the US has been paying to protect the EU from Russia - which is what NATO is all about - and that the EU nations have been delinquent in paying their share for decades, and that Germany now is moving its finances and political alignment closer to Russia, the very nation the US is paying to protect them from. I don't see a flaw in his reasoning. If Russia is not a problem, then the US should stop spending to protect Europe. Another thing that may well happen is a drawdown of US troops stationed in EU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HereIStand
Upvote 0

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,998
19,441
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟488,914.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
A "few" jobs? That's what you think it would amount to?
In the grand scheme of things, yes. German cars are exported all across the globe. It would propably cost a few thousand jobs, maybe ten thousand. At the moment, germany is at an all time low in jobless numbers.

I am by the way for increased german military spending, but sadly none of our current parties except the far right AfD agrees on that issue, and I find myself unable to vote for those dunderheads. That's the problem with a representative democracy. But I'd like if the USA pulled out their troops from germany. Just don't forget your listening posts and other spy agencies.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

συνείδησις

¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ
Jun 10, 2018
720
439
70
SE
✟24,738.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Germany has the money. And the West is supposed to placing sanctions on Russia.

I don't Germany looks at it like you do. Are you going to apply the same rule to yourself? If some other country tells the US how to spend its own money, you are OK with that?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Nithavela
Upvote 0

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,998
19,441
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟488,914.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I don't Germany looks at it like you do. Are you going to apply the same rule to yourself? If some other country tells the US how to spend its own money, you are OK with that?
Some people seem to prefer sovereignity for the USA and vassaldom for everyone else.
 
Upvote 0

HereIStand

Regular Member
Supporter
Jul 6, 2006
4,080
3,083
✟317,987.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
I don't Germany looks at it like you do. Are you going to apply the same rule to yourself? If some other country tells the US how to spend its own money, you are OK with that?
It's not about telling them how to spend their money. Germany will do what it wants. It can't claim Russia as an adversary though if it's trading with Russia at this level.
 
Upvote 0

HereIStand

Regular Member
Supporter
Jul 6, 2006
4,080
3,083
✟317,987.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Some people seem to prefer sovereignity for the USA and vassaldom for everyone else.
Trump has been criticized for the slightest possible business deal with Russia or his slowness in imposing sanctions on them. Meanwhile, Germany trades openly with the Russians on a grand scale.
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,364.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
In the grand scheme of things, yes. German cars are exported all across the globe. It would propably cost a few thousand jobs, maybe ten thousand. At the moment, germany is at an all time low in jobless numbers.

I am by the way for increased german military spending, but sadly none of our current parties except the far right AfD agrees on that issue, and I find myself unable to vote for those dunderheads. That's the problem with a representative democracy. But I'd like if the USA pulled out their troops from germany. Just don't forget your listening posts and other spy agencies.

I don't know what the numbers will be, but the US has a GDP equal to that of the next four nations, but excluding Germany, combined. The US GDP exceeds that of the entire EU, which has more people. So I think the effect will be substantial. As far as the military and surveillance thing, I'm not in disagreement with you. But I think especially regarding surveillance, considering Russia, China and terrorism, at least to some extent there is a common benefit for all nations that it not be jettisoned wholesale.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HereIStand
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,998
19,441
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟488,914.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I don't know what the numbers will be, but the US has a GDP equal to that of the next four nations, but excluding Germany, combined. The US GDP exceeds that of the entire EU, which has more people. So I think the effect will be substantial.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/06/11/news/economy/german-cars-trump-trade/index.html

As far as the military and surveillance thing, I'm not in disagreement with you. But I think especially regarding surveillance, considering Russia, China and terrorism, at least to some extent there is a common benefit for all nations that it not be jettisoned wholesale.
Then that benefit should be funded by all nations and benefit all nations. But it should not be used by one of those nations as a means to threaten other countries into compliance on unrelated issues.

It's just like the breastfeeding summit from a few days ago. The USA bullies weaker nations into acting against their own interest and the common good by threatening to withdraw funding, remove military aid or raise tarrifs. And the only way to treat a bully is for the bullied to lock shoulders and stand up to him.

And THAT is why I, personally, am against Germany caving into those demands.
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,364.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Then that benefit should be funded by all nations and benefit all nations. But it should not be used by one of those nations as a means to threaten other countries into compliance on unrelated issues.
I agree all should pay for it. But I see a common issue behind Trump's position - that the US has been bankrolling the EU for a long time, and it's time for that to stop. That applies to both defense and trade, and it especially applies when Merkel goes to Russia for energy, which is a matter of strategic security. The issues are not unrelated.

As far as breastfeeding, if I remember the issue correctly, and before that the aggressive international promotion of abortion, believe me, many here in the US were aggrieved by our government's actions, and were glad to see Trump put an end to it.
 
Upvote 0

συνείδησις

¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ
Jun 10, 2018
720
439
70
SE
✟24,738.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It's not about telling them how to spend their money. Germany will do what it wants. It can't claim Russia as an adversary though if it's trading with Russia at this level.

I agree with Trump that there's a duplicity that needs to stop.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,998
19,441
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟488,914.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I agree all should pay for it. But I see a common issue behind Trump's position - that the US has been bankrolling the EU for a long time, and it's time for that to stop.

What has happened is that the US spends an insane amount of money on its military. You guys need to dial it down a lot, we need to dial it up a notch or two.

What has also happened was that the only time NATO actually went into action, it was in support of the USA; not in support of Europe.

As far as breastfeeding, if I remember the issue correctly, and before that the aggressive international promotion of abortion, believe me, many here in the US were aggrieved by our government's actions, and were glad to see Trump put an end to it.
Your current government is the one who pushed to sink the current UN resolution to support breast feeding because your government was lobbied by the baby formula industry. That wasn't even a week ago.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mindlight
Upvote 0