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Trump Moves Convention Out Of North Carolina

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by mark46, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm sure that Trump will find a site in FL or TX. I suspect that this decision won't help his political chances in NC.

    I'm not sure why we fuss so over the election. Trump will quite likely invoke emergencies powers and delay the election until after a COVID vaccine is generally available. And yes, his Supreme Court might well back the Executive of the US, as they backed the Executive of California.
     
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  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    wow.
     
  3. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    Good luck finding a site that can host an event of this complexity on such short notice in the context of a global pandemic and societal unrest.

    Trump doesn't have the power to do that, it rests solely with Congress. More interestingly, there's the entirely seperate clause in the 20th amendment to your constitution: "The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January.”

    So the only thing being delayed is the inevitable.
     
  4. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1) There are lots of sites in northern and central FL who will be more than happy to accommodate the president. Northern FL will not impose any pandemic conditions, and will allow large crowded rooms.

    2) In my personal opinion, Trump has taken many actions that contradict US law, US precedents and the Constitution. Why stop now? Any delay of the elections will be litigated, and eventually be decided by the Supreme Court. This president just yesterday indicated that he would personally send in the US military to police the cities (even if the governors say no), if the governors continued to do a poor job. Will the Supreme Court prevent them from doing this? Perhaps, perhaps not. Trump has threatened to cut off federal aid from states who have to much of their election based on mail-in ballots. Will the Supreme Court stop him? Trump has threatened to stop aid to states that allow sanctuary cities. There is a very. very long liftoff such actions. And be clear, his 40% strongly support his actions.

    You seem to assume that Trump will obey the law. His AG says that he cannot commit any crimes while in office. I suspect that delaying an election during the second wave of the worst medical emergency since WWI will qualify for a reason to delay the election, and that even the Supreme Court might agree.
    =========================
    And just BTW, if there is a 2nd wave in the Fall, many Americans will support a delay. Will we really take to the streets to demand that we have a mail in election? Some states have accepted this, some not.
    =========
    AND JUST BY THE WAY
    What do you think will happen when Trump is "declared" the loser after the last counting of the mail-in ballots. How many court cases do you think will be started in how many states and counties? Trump, as he did last time, will declare that there has been rampant fraud and that he is the winner, no matter the result.

    This country is a very long way from having president other than Trump.
     
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  5. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    There's more to logistics than "allow". I've organised large conference with none of the security concerns that this one has. It's non trivial.

    I'm not sure that is true. He's certainly said a bunch of stuff which, if he'd actually actioned any of them, might have issues. You mentioned a bunch of stuff he said he'd do...none of which he's done.

    You cannot have a 2nd wave whilst still in the middle of the 1st.

    Any of those currently running around their cities ignoring the pandemic entirely?

    I do not have the total pessimism you do regarding your country.
     
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  6. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If the President loses NC, it is unlikely that can win the election. Biden will most likely win PA, as he has roots in Scranton. Biden will probably win MI, as Trump only won it by 10,000 votes in 2016. The President has somewhat better odds to win WI, but as I recall, WI only gets him to either a tie or a narrow 2 vote win. He won 306 Electoral Votes in 2016, less 20 for PA and 16 for MI gives you 270. However, the 270 figure assumes that he wins the Northern Maine Congressional District and the one for Omaha and it's suburbs. If he loses either of those, then you are at a 269-269 tie, but that assumes that he wins NC. I believe that he won NC by about 3 pts. How much ground he might lose in NC by moving the RNC Convention is iffy, but why chance it?

    It is very helpful to win TX and FL, though FL is by no means a certainty. However, it takes a lot more to get to 270 and NC is a real key. It might be better for him and the party to stay in NC.
     
  7. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    Best news I heard all day. We got enough trash in this city, thanks.
     
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  8. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    I’m not sure if pessimism isn’t just realism here. There are a fair number of people in the US who identify a Trump presidency with the preservation of their way of life, and any legitimate legal action taken against him as some kind of subversive plot. If Trump does lose the election, whatever they might say about it now, those people will gladly swallow whatever craziness he comes out with to hang on to power. Through Barr he has a compliant DOJ, which shouldn’t be underestimated. I think the world has hardly seen an inkling of the full man-baby id of Trump when he doesn’t get what he wants, no way he’s not going to fight an election defeat, if that happens, by any means at his disposal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  9. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    I don't see it. This conversation has happened at the election cycle of every president for the last few decades. I definitely remember people saying it about Bush, and you can find numerous threads on this board about how Obama was going to be the last president ever. Worst case scenario is it comes down to the wire like Gore/Bush.
     
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  10. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    We'll see I suppose, if he doesn't win. Other presidents might have felt aggrieved at losing but few if any were prepared to lie and manipulate to the extent Trump does, and there are plenty of people who want to be manipulated, so long as the end is that they get what they want.
     
  11. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

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    Bye Felicia.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    In my opinion, the title of this thread is misleading. And no source was provided in the OP.

    So here's one--and it's a news service which is definitely not friendly towards the President. As can be seen, the move, if it comes to pass, is more a consequence of the Governor of North Carolina's unwillingness to work something out so that the convention can stay in Charlotte than any hotheadedness on the part of the President.

    Trump slams North Carolina and says he's moving GOP convention elsewhere

    Here are some of the key points--

    "In a written response, GOP officials outlined their convention safety protocol that included a list of measures they planned to take, including extensive sanitation measures and daily temperature checks for all who would enter the Spectrum Arena.

    On Friday, RNC Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel said in a radio appearance the party would wait until Wednesday for Cooper to further outline health and safety measures complete enough to “guarantee” the convention’s path forward.

    "But (Governor) Cooper balked.

    “Neither public health officials nor I will risk the health and safety of North Carolinians by providing the guarantee you seek,” he wrote.

    It looks as though the Republicans had no choice, and it certainly is not to their advantage to move the convention at this late date. It was 'move' or risk having a hostile governor announce at the last moment that only 10 people would be allowed into the stadium or hall.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  13. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    The mayor of Las Vegas was gung ho to reopen, and desperate for tourism.
    The worst part about a republican convention would be everyone returning to their own States bringing back not only ideological poison but a deadly disease
     
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  14. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

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    The part if Las Vegas she is mayor over does not contain a facility that could host the convention.
     
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  15. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    ‘Hostile’?

    This is, as far as I know, the last correspondence they had before Trump pulled out. 42F5D949-DD1A-4102-A42E-DF6D7C065937.jpeg
    B1614983-8FE5-4E4F-92B3-2156EC7A070A.jpeg

    To my eyes, he’s being quite reasonable. A maxed out, 100% Republican convention in August is extremely unlikely - we don't know how things will be in three months, but there certainly won't be a vaccine, and it's safe to assume that large gatherings will still be discouraged. He can't gaurantee them that, so why make a promise he knows he can't keep? A 'full arena' is ridiculous.

    All he’s asking for is a convention in line with safety guidelines and is willing to negotiate. At no point does he say anything like wanting a stadium with 10 people. He’s not being hostile. Why would he? You think he doesn’t want more money in his pocket? This has been in the works for years. If he didn't want the convention here, he could've scuttled it long ago.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Sure. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

    There was the claim that Trump had decreed that the convention was to be moved. The President made the announcement, yes, but it's not as though he took matters into his own hands and did something impetuous. The representatives of the Party had negotiated for a long time, got nowhere, and had no other choice.

    In the letter you consider reasonable, the governor says he's willing to continue "talking," but the Party cannot go on forever, making proposals but getting no counters from the governor, and then then have the convention banned by an edict on the eve of its opening.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  17. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    That doesn't seem to be the case, going by the letter. It seemed they had reached some consensus that things would be scaled back, but Friday Trump came out insisting that they go all in. 'Full hotels and restaurants and bars at capacity'? He can't promise that. Nobody can.

    And I'd love for you to point out 'the hositility'.

    Roy Cooper gave as much of an assurance as he could possibly offer given the current climate. For all he knows, we could be in the middle of another wave in August. There's no way to know what's going to happen in three days, much less three months.

    Please, explain to me how anything in that letter was unreasonable given the current situation.

    Roy Cooper was clearly willing to negotiate as of June 2. Had no other choice? They had the choice to talk with him and come up with something scaled back. It certainly would be less of a hassle than picking a new venue three months out from the event.

    Again, it's not like Roy Cooper has any real reason to back out of this at this point - it will certainly cost him and the State money. If he didn't want the convention here, he could've nixed it long ago, so you can't just say he's doing this to snub the Republican Party.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  18. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    What proposals did they make? I'm not seeing anything about them making some proposal that he rejected, unless you consider the whole bit about wanting full restaurants and hotels. Of course he turned that down.

    There's no indication that such a thing would happen, unless there's some huge spike in cases. It would certainly not be in Roy Cooper's best interest to pull out at that point - again, it would cost him and the State a lot of money, millions of dollars. If he would have to cancel so close to the date, it wouldn't be because he wanted to, but because he had to.

    He can't control the virus, and you seem to be faulting him for not making promises that he very well can't make. This is an extremely chaotic time in our country, everything is tenuous, and Roy Cooper has a responsibility to look out for the health of his citizens. Every in that letter was centered around that, and he gains nothing by snubbing Trump just for spite.
     
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  19. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    There aren't even "lots of sites" that could handle it. The four most recent Republican National Conventions (including the upcoming 2020 RNC) have all been held in indoor arenas with seating capacities in the 18,000-20,000 range, which limits you to professional sports venues and maybe some larger college venues, though most college arenas (not for football) are nowhere near that size. Not only do you need that many seats for the attendees, but you also need a bunch of support for production and, as @Tanj noted, security. Even something like being able to fit all the staging and lights (or having a strong enough roof to support them) could be a problem in a smaller venue. And a lot of bigger venues in Florida don't have roofs, which is a nonstarter for an event like this.

    Assuming this list and the lists to which it links and this listare comprehensive, then I found only seven in the whole state that would work, with the only one in north FL being by far the smallest:
    Amalie Arena - Wikipedia
    Amway Center - Wikipedia
    BB&T Center (Sunrise, Florida) - Wikipedia
    VyStar Veterans Memorial Arena - Wikipedia
    American Airlines Arena - Wikipedia
    Tropicana Field - Wikipedia
    Marlins Park - Wikipedia
     
  20. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

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    And that's just the venue. Then you have to worry about stuff like crews to convert the space, catering, entertainment, and God knows what else. A 20k person event is a huge undertaking, which is why planning for it starts two years out.
     
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