Trump is another Constantine the Great?

[Ohorseman]

At first, I was thinking Trump was like a John the Baptist figure. Indeed he is a fiery preacher from the wilderness. But he is from the political wilderness, a political preacher... not a holy man like John the Baptist. That does not fit. However, based upon Trump's Christian friendly positions, he is very much like Emperor Constantine, don't you think?

[STAFF EDITED]

 

[Fantine]

More like Nero, I think.
Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
Trump.golfed while the Pacific coast burned.

Nero liked bread and circuses.
Trump likes cheeseburgers and rallies (aka contagion fests.)!

Nero was a pagan.
Trump's behavior is that of an atheist.

 

[Ezana]

A comparison can definitely be made, I think, in that both the president and the emperor made notable efforts to support Christianity, its adherents and its morality in their respective realms, while at the same time not leading particularly Christian lives themselves—or so it might appear. I cannot judge the president's heart (nor can I the emperor's), and I'm certainly guilty of heinous sins myself. But his administration gears more towards Christian morality than any other government in the West—even if only for its stance on the sanctity of life.

I used to resent President Trump's character, if I'm being honest, and despised his lack of civility. But in hindsight, my thinking wasn't quite independent, was influenced by what I was consuming online, and was not at all informed by my faith. I now see that his moral character really is secondary to the governance of his country and the moral climate it engenders. For all his flaws, he is truly the most pro-life president the States have seen and—in an age where genuine Christianity is increasingly becoming something of a religio illicita—as Constantinian a president as we'll ever get.

 

[timothyu]

I now see that his moral character really is secondary to the governance of his country and the moral climate it engenders.

Kinda like the Beatles and some of the greatest music ever but their private life was certainly lacking in the same quality.

 

[Ohorseman]

Really, Fantine. I guess you are joking around. Nero killed Christians for sport. Trump is on very friendly terms with Christians, promotes religious liberty, and is the most active president in the pro-life movement that we have ever had. Nero, lol. Read what this Catholic wrote: The Emperor Constantine Was No Saint, Neither Is President Trump, But…

No, Michael Collum. Constantine. Not John the Baptist. Brother, I don't think you even read it, lol.

Yes, Ezana. The wells are poisoned. I stopped drinking from them.

True, Timothyu. Just like Constantine. They say he did not convert until he was near death. But it was because of him that we have the creeds, great councils, and even Bible canon.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

At first, I was thinking Trump was like a John the Baptist figure. Indeed he is a fiery preacher from the wilderness. But he is from the political wilderness, a political preacher... not a holy man like John the Baptist. That does not fit. However, based upon Trump's Christian friendly positions, he is very much like Emperor Constantine, don't you think?

[STAFF EDITED]

Yes and I joking also have been tempted to call him "Emperor Trumpentine" also as a jest for the "Trump is the antichrist crowd" (a Star Wars reference of emperor Palpatine for the people that need to vilify him).


Some people have also compared him to Cyrus the Great and that one judge of the Old Testament who killed Jezebel (rabbi Cahn of "the Harbinger" fame.)

 

[timothyu]

But it was because of him that we have the creeds, great councils, and even Bible canon.

And the 'official' church rejoined the world of man in partnership.

 

[Fantine]

Hmmm...Constantine was an empire builder. Trump is an isolationist.

Former Jesuit James Carroll.wrote a book.called "Constantine's Sword." He describes how Constantine turned the cross into a sword beginning many centuries of conquest, anti-Semitism, and imperialism which taints Christianity today.

I heard Caroll speak. He is a pacifist, of course. One if my friends is a great admirer of his.

 

[pescador]

A comparison can definitely be made, I think, in that both the president and the emperor made notable efforts to support Christianity, its adherents and its morality in their respective realms, while at the same time not leading particularly Christian lives themselves—or so it might appear. I cannot judge the president's heart (nor can I the emperor's), and I'm certainly guilty of heinous sins myself. But his administration gears more towards Christian morality than any other government in the West—even if only for its stance on the sanctity of life.

I used to resent President Trump's character, if I'm being honest, and despised his lack of civility. But in hindsight, my thinking wasn't quite independent, was influenced by what I was consuming online, and was not at all informed by my faith. I now see that his moral character really is secondary to the governance of his country and the moral climate it engenders. For all his flaws, he is truly the most pro-life president the States have seen and—in an age where genuine Christianity is something of a religio illicita—as Constantinian a president as we'll ever get.

If he's "pro-life" how come 227,000 are dead from a virus he has refused to take seriously?

 

[Ohorseman]

Seriously, pescador. We all know that the term pro-life is making direct reference to the abortion issue. And what you are saying about him not taking the virus seriously is not true. That is not even the topic. Start your own topic elsewhere if you wish to talk about that. Be nice, brother. And if you really want to discuss death tolls. Consider this: Death toll of all USA wars combined = 1.1 million. Death toll by abortion since Roe v Wade = 62 million. Since 1970, Planned Parenthood has killed 8.9 million... YES, they are deadlier than our military.

 

[timothyu]

he has refused to take seriously?

Should an open mind be an asset?

 

[Fantine]

The "life" in Pro-life is defined by religious leaders as conception to natural death, not conception to birth.

Pescador is correct.

 

[tz620q]

The "life" in Pro-life is defined by religious leaders as conception to natural death, not conception to birth.

Pescador is correct.

While that is true and so the death penalty is seen as just as morally wrong as abortion, your blaming Trump for the death of people from a pandemic is not philosophically correct. Now if Trump had secret scientific knowledge and large government funding and could engineer a military grade virus that was both very contagious and hid its symptoms for days and released that on the American people, then he would be to blame. Wait, I think I recognize that picture.

 

[JohnDB]

I wouldn't go as far as Trump seeing signs in the sky to go forth and conquer with...

He actually is a return to the normal line of Presidents we have had in centuries past.

Wealthy men and men of industry who had good and bad ideas and driven to make the nation do well as a whole.

The ones we have seen for over a century now have been career politicians...
The change has been refreshing.

 

[tz620q]

I wouldn't go as far as Trump seeing signs in the sky to go forth and conquer with...

He actually is a return to the normal line of Presidents we have had in centuries past.

Wealthy men and men of industry who had good and bad ideas and driven to make the nation do well as a whole.

The ones we have seen for over a century now have been career politicians...
The change has been refreshing.

I think both parties are underestimating what you just said. When the two parties become locked in warfare and ignore good governance, it is easy to dismiss career politicians as an unnecessary evil.

 

[Fantine]

He owns hotels. He owns golf courses.

From the very start he looked at this as an "economic" problem since his personal investments (which he was supposed to have put into a blind trust or divested from when he became president) were negatively affected.

Most presidents would call human life "priceless," but for Trump, money is priceless, and if a virus interfered with his making money well who cares if people die? Don't let his calculated, manipulative support for overturning Roe fool you. Look at his behavior. Look at what he says. He says he cares about life because he thinks it will get him votes.

If he just enacted his criminally negligent policy of "doing nothing" it would be one thing.

But he goes around the country trying to spread the message that the virus doesn't matter, that mask wearing isn't important, etc. because he figures that will help his hotels make money.

 

[Bobber]

If he's "pro-life"......

If? If he wasn't pro-life why would he appoint a new judge who very much is?

 

[JohnDB]

I think both parties are underestimating what you just said. When the two parties become locked in warfare and ignore good governance, it is easy to dismiss career politicians as an unnecessary evil.

You really ought to see the musical "Hamilton".
Where they paint Thomas Jefferson as an evil schmuck...it's fairly accurate in a lot of ways.

And it is difficult to be a Hamilton in an Aaron Burr world.

 

[timothyu]

He says he cares about life because he thinks it will get him votes.

Getting votes differs from the other parties how?

 

[Redwingfan9]

At first, I was thinking Trump was like a John the Baptist figure. Indeed he is a fiery preacher from the wilderness. But he is from the political wilderness, a political preacher... not a holy man like John the Baptist. That does not fit. However, based upon Trump's Christian friendly positions, he is very much like Emperor Constantine, don't you think?

[STAFF EDITED]

This comparison (and the Nero comparison) is a bit much. Trump is neither as great as his fan base claims nor as evil as his enemies claim. He isn't Constantine, he isn't ushering the Christian faith into the safety of the empire.