Trump Health Care vs GOP Support????

[dgiharris]

For 7 years GOP members have been beating their chests about how awful ObamaCare was...
For 7 years GOP members have been criticizing ObamaCare...
FOr 7 years GOP members have been claiming they had a better plan....

And now, when the rubber meets the road it turns out that the GOP Health Care plan was non-existent and they are "scrambling" to throw something together while simultaneously promising "Hey America, don't worry, we will roll this out in 3 phases and the last phase will have all the good stuff..."

I do not believe that. But will Trump supporters and GOP types believe it?

Their proposed Health Care plan more or less is to just repeal anything Obama has done.. But that isn't a Plan.

So my question to GOP types is simply this. Which is more important?
--Scrubbing away all traces of the Obama presidency or...
--Providing Americans with a Health Care plan that benefits the MAJORITY of Americans (i.e. the working class and elderly and the poor)

I've always thought that America needs two parties. There are some things the GOP does better than the Dems and some things Dems do better than the GOP.

Imo, GOP is usually better in security, defense, and business...
but the Dems are better at Domestic issues...

I submit that the GOP plan for healthcare will be inferior to what the Dems have proposed.

GOP can't help but think in terms of helping the rich and the corporations. And so, their health care plan will be for the benefit of the rich and the insurance companies and NOT the Working Class. And as a nation who will spend a Trillion dollars on a war at the drop of a hat, that is just unacceptable.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I think the GOP , and many republicans wants insurance back to the way it was before Obama. But that's unlikely now. Obama care is better than a real bad plan. Which it seems the Trump plan is.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I submit that the GOP plan for healthcare will be inferior to what the Dems have proposed.

In terms of ensuring that Americans have insurance coverage, the GOP plan is inferior. In terms of lowering the tax burden on people making more than $1 million, the GOP plan is superior.

 

[dgiharris]

I think the GOP , and many republicans wants insurance back to the way it was before Obama. But that's unlikely now. Obama care is better than a real bad plan. Which it seems the Trump plan is.

I think the GOP has gotten used to just being "anti-Obama".

It's easy to be anti-something, it's easy to say "no no no that is bad bad bad..."

It is infinitely harder to actual be the one in charge "doing something".

It is my belief that there are certain things that just do not work well with Capitalism and the Invisible hand theory and Health Care is one of those things. Thus, I believe the GOP foundation in this argument is ultimately flawed.

For instance, mathematical models do not do well with extremes. In the case of Health care, the Supply vs Demand curve is infinite. How much of your money are you willing to spend to stay alive? The "infinite" demand nature of Health Care renders most checks and balances of the free market moot. Thus, companies and corporations and hospitals and insurers can take advantage of that. So yes, we need regulations protecting the people. Yes, we need the big bad government to get involved.

Now, the retort would be to say, "Well, the competitive market place will create demand for cheaper health care to lure clients away from more expensive hospitals..." but that isn't true. What will happen is simply that all health care and all hospitals just simply collude either directly or indirectly. The barrier to entry to the market for a "new hospital" is too high... basically, again, free market economics will not drive down the price of health care because the demand is infinite.

This is the piece of the mathematical puzzling that renders invisible hand theory in regards to health care moot.

 

[W2L]

In terms of ensuring that Americans have insurance coverage, the GOP plan is inferior. In terms of lowering the tax burden on people making more than $1 million, the GOP plan is superior.

about taxes...

Democrats bailed out corporations, so Trump can do the same. Its a trump stimulus package.

 

[essentialsaltes]

about taxes...

Democrats bailed out corporations, so Trump can do the same. Its a trump stimulus package.

I know corporations are people nowadays, but people making more than $1 million are not corporations.

 

[W2L]

I know corporations are people nowadays, but people making more than $1 million are not corporations.

semantics?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

about taxes...

Democrats bailed out corporations, so Trump can do the same. Its a trump stimulus package.

Is that why it was President George W. Bush telling the American people that we need to do this?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I've always thought that America needs two parties. There are some things the GOP does better than the Dems and some things Dems do better than the GOP.

That may have worked in the past when parties still cared for the overall good of the country. But with today’s total opposition with working with anyone from the other side what so ever to the point that nothing gets done, something needs to change.

 

[Armoured]

That may have worked in the past when parties still cared for the overall good of the country. But with today’s total opposition with working with anyone from the other side what so ever to the point that nothing gets done, something needs to change.

The party system as practised in the US and Australia (and, I suspect, the UK and several other European countries) has reached a point where it is functionally broken. Both sides are more interested in criticising the other than actually achieving anything, and well funded interest groups and lobbyists carry more weight than the electorate, and the average citizen's concerns are simply no longer addressed by either side.

Voter frustration with this state of affairs is precisely why we're seeing a dangerous swing towards the populist/authoritarian/nationalist fringe in politics throughout the Western World.

Frightening times.

In the immortal words of Fred Thompson;

 

[W2L]

Is that why it was President George W. Bush telling the American people that we need to do this?

No, its why the democrats did it.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

No, its why the democrats did it.

The Democrat President George W. Bush.

 

[W2L]

The Democrat President George W. Bush.

lol

 

[MrSpikey]

That may have worked in the past when parties still cared for the overall good of the country. But with today’s total opposition with working with anyone from the other side what so ever to the point that nothing gets done, something needs to change.

The recent healthcare replacement votes seems to point to problems with working with people from the same side to get the majority required to pass the law, rather than a lack of cross party unity. If you have a majority, but still can't muster the votes to repeal something so apparently universally despised by lawmakers of the same party as Obamacare, then cross party cooperation is the least of your worries.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think the GOP , and many republicans wants insurance back to the way it was before Obama. But that's unlikely now. Obama care is better than a real bad plan. Which it seems the Trump plan is.

It wasn't that great before Obama either... (in fact, based on your personal situation, it may have been worse before)

What happened was, a bunch of companies (both employers and insurance companies) saw the passage of ACA as the perfect opportunity to screw people over in ways they had wanted to do for a while, but now had a scapegoat they could blame it on.

Pre-ACA, my brother's company (as in company he works for, he doesn't own it) offered a decent health care plan to their employees, and picked up 80% of the tab, and the employee picked up the other 20% via paycheck deduction. My brother literally sat in on meetings where they picked out the less comprehensive (cheaper) plans, changed the structure so that it was a 50/50 split between the employer/employee (meaning less benefits, bigger hit in the paycheck deduction), and then the CFO strolled out on stage for the quarterly company meeting, and told the staff (with a straight face) "Due to the ACA regulations that are going into effect, you'll notice an increase in the cost of healthcare, and certain things might not be covered that were last year...yada yada yada"

Obviously, most employees aren't going to demand the information or do the research...all they know is that their benefits cost more than they did last year, their coverage is worse, and someone in a position of authority who they trust led them to believe that it was because of ACA.

 

[jgarden]

Trump Health Care vs GOP Support????

They'll never admit it, but the Republicans are jealous that they don't have former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi!

Unlike Trump, she has demonstrated that she has mastered "the art of the deal" - when it counts!