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Featured Trump Fulfills Jerusalem Prophecy Today

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by James Honigman, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    People who think they are in control of their lives are deceived. You have what appears to be a "free will" to choose the direction of your life, but many times our plans do not work perfectly. We have in mind what we want to do, but how do you know the thought to do something was self-generated? How do you know for sure when you come to a fork in the road and your choice to go this way was not in fact influenced by God or the Devil? A person thinks their own thoughts are self-generated. If there were no God or Satan or contact with other people and outside information, then they would be. And btw, this "free will" you think you have is not so free.
    Armenians tout "free will" and that we chose God first, but without God's grace and enabling us to do so, we could not. We are all slaves to either God or Satan. So, if there was free will, then at death, you could go anywhere you wanted to freely, you would not be subject to any punishment and hence just will yourself to eternal bliss. You are free to have ice cream today or wear red socks, but you are not free to sin. The wages of sin is death unless you are forgiven, but if not, you are subject to destruction.
    I chose to marry a person whom I thought was the one that I would be with for life , but that was not my destiny.
    I chose to be a musician and wanted to be one for life -- I did it for about 12 years and so that was not my destiny.
    I chose to live in California, at a young age when the weather and beaches and being a music capital seemed like the place for me -- I' m in Texas now.
    What a person thinks is good for them and the choices he makes don't always work out nor are they good for him either. It's funny, we mess up because many times we don't know what's best for us - that's life.
    If it is in God's will and He knows what's best, then it will be. When I was younger, I didn't have a clue of what was God's will and still, the only destiny I'm certain of is heaven. But as far as what I'm going to be doing next year, I have can guess that it would look similar to what this last year looked like, but the spiritual, natural forces are beyond my control.
     
  2. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    Israel's Present Hardening and Future Salvation: An Exegesis of Romans 11:25-32

    What Does the Bible Say About Protecting Israel?


    I have many times, this is post-Millennium, when the former things pass away, the heavens and earth are destroyed in a fervent heat, the elements melt away and the New Jerusalem comes down. This is after the 1000 years. So in essence the Day of the Lord is within this 1000 years. Christ returns with judgment (3 1/2 years of Great Tribulation), He puts a temporary end to sin and evil when He locks up Satan and his demonic horde in the Abyss, then physically sets up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years - in the flesh, then He releases Satan once again for a short period to tempt those on earth who were not born again believers (these are children born in this era), THEN HE DESTROYS THE EARTH AND HEAVEN IN A FERVENT HEAT (2 Pet. 3:10)

    Ezek. 21:26, 27 refers to King Zedekiah removal and Nebuchadnezzar's reign.
    Ezek. 17
    "Eze 17:1-24. Parable of the Two Great Eagles, and the Cropping of the Cedar of Lebanon. Judah Is to Be Judged for Revolting from Babylon, Which Had Set Up Zedekiah instead of Jehoiachin, to Egypt; God Himself, as the Rival of the Babylonian King, Is to Plant the Gospel Cedar of Messiah.
    The date of the prophecy is between the sixth month of Zedekiah's sixth year of reign and the fifth month of the seventh year after the carrying away of Jehoiachin, that is, five years before the destruction of Jerusalem [Henderson].Under the parable of two eagles and a vine, Ezekiel 17:1-10, is showed God’s judgment upon Zedekiah, for revolting from Babylon to Egypt, Ezekiel 17:11-21. A promise of Christ’s kingdom, Ezekiel 17:22-24."
    Zech. 6:12, 13
    "12. Behold, the man—namely, shall arise. Pilate unconsciously spake God's will concerning Him, "Behold the man" (Joh 19:5). The sense here is, "Behold in Joshua a remarkable shadowing forth of Messiah." It is not for his own sake that the crown is placed on him, but as type of Messiah about to be at once king and priest. Joshua could not individually be crowned king, not being of the royal line of David, but only in his representative character.

    Branch—(See on [1180]Zec 3:8; Isa 4:2; Jer 23:5; 33:15).
    he shall grow up out of his place—retaining the image of a "Branch"; "He shall sprout up from His place," that is, the place peculiar to Him: not merely from Beth-lehem or Nazareth, but by His own power, without man's aid, in His miraculous conception [Henderson]; a sense brought out in the original, "from under Himself," or "from (of) Himself" [Calvin]. Moore makes it refer to His growing lowly in His place of obscurity, "as a tender plant and a root out of a dry ground" (Isa 53:2), for thirty years unknown except as the son of a carpenter. Maurer translates, "Under Him there shall be growth (in the Church)." English Version accords better with the Hebrew (compare Ex 10:23). The idea in a Branch is that Christ's glory is growing, not yet fully manifested as a full-grown tree. Therefore men reject Him now.
    build the temple—The promise of the future true building of the spiritual temple by Messiah (Mt 16:18; 1Co 3:17; 2Co 6:16; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 3:3) is an earnest to assure the Jews, that the material temple will be built by Joshua and Zerubbabel, in spite of all seeming obstacles. It also raises their thoughts beyond the material to the spiritual temple, and also to the future glorious temple, to be reared in Israel under Messiah's superintendence (Eze 40:1-43:27). The repetition of the same clause (Zec 6:13) gives emphasis to the statement as to Messiah's work."
    Jamieson-Fauset-Brown commentaries (Ezek. & Zech scriptures)

    Jesus is God, our Creator but He did not physically reign as King for 1000 years at any time in history ... but will soon reign. Won't that be nice? Not looking forward to that? What a shame.
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    This so-called "Exegesis" of Romans 11 is actually a twisting of the passage to make John Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine work.
    It is "Eisegesis", instead.

    Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite and Gentile branches grafted together into one tree, through faith in Christ.

    Paul begins the passage by proclaiming that he is an Israelite in verse 1, which eliminates the Dispensationalists distinction between Israel and the Church.

    In verses 2-5 Paul described two different groups of Israelites during the time of Elijah.
    Most of the Israelites worshipped Baal, but there was a remnant of 7,000 Israelites who remained faithful to God.
    Paul said there was also a remnant during his time and the same is true today.

    Based on Luke 21:24-28 the times of the Gentiles does not end until the future Second Coming of Christ.
    Apparently, Dispensationalists hope that most people are ignorant of this passage.

    I have heard Dispensational preachers on television either change to the word "so" to the word "then", or leave out the word "so" in Romans 11:26.
    Both are a corruption of the text to make their doctrine work.
    The verse is about the manner of salvation, rather than the timing of salvation.

    They also try to claim that all of Israel is "partially" blinded instead of looking at the context of Romans 11:1-5, which reveals two different groups of Israelites in which part are blinded and the other part (remnant) are not blinded.

    They have taken the New Covenant fulfilled for all races of people at Calvary in Romans 11:27 and have converted it into a covenant with the modern State of Israel.

    Within the passage Paul only provides one path to salvation for the branches broken off by being grafted back into the Olive Tree Church, through faith in Christ.

    There is no path to salvation outside of the Olive Tree Church found in the passage.


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  4. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    Disagree.
     
  5. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    This is the mistake your making. The passage does NOT make the distinction you're making. Paul is telling you what the reality is. Think about the fact that he is writing to Galatian Christians who allowed Judaizers to convince many of them to observe the circumcision which has no place in the New Covenant.
    Paul's whole argument is the opposite of what you state. "In Christ" refers to the reality Ronald.
     
  6. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    "In Christ" means IN HIS SPIRITUAL BODY - THE CHURCH. That is why Paul is making the point that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom, that there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female. Were you "born again" spiritually? Or is that another phrase that you don't recognize? The whole point you all are making is in agreement with this fact, that our salvation is solely spiritual and it includes everyone who puts their faith in Christ alone - no argument there. However, once again, you are all in denial and/or distorting Romans 11, Ezek. 37 -39, Rev. 7 & 14 and others:
    "but - as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them. For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers." Jer. 16:15
    "Say to them, thus says the Lord GOD, - Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;" Ezek. 37:21

    The fulfillment of this prophecy began in 1948.

    The Lord will save a remnant but put them and those who do not receive Christ through the fire as well to test them.
    "Sinners in Zion are terrified; Trembling has seized the godless. Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?" Isaiah 33:14 This consuming fire is on earth, they are witnesses to it.
    Wrath comes to the enemies of Zion, see Isaiah 34:8-11
    "It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." Zech. 12:9 This obviously did not happen yet.
    "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn." Zech. 12:10
    This was written 500 years before Christ. Grace came with Christ. When Christ died on the cross, they looked on Him and mourned. At Pentecost, the Holy spirit was poured out in Jerusalem and to the world. This would appear to be referring to that time. However, the context of the passage speaks of a war where all the nations of the earth come against Jerusalem in the future. This did not eve happen in 70 A.D. Only one nation destroyed Jerusalem, the Roman Empire.
    "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and residue of the people shall not be cut off form the city. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle. And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley, and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." ... "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; their flesh shall consume (melt) away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." Zech. 14:2-4, 12

    The gathering of all nations against Jerusalem will happen and is already beginning.
    Jesus will return and literally stand on the Mt. of Olives and the mountain will split in two as the scripture describes.
    The plague that he uses to destroy these nations describes either a nuclear blast, where peoples flesh is dissolved while they are still standing on their feet or He reigns fire from heaven -- either way, this has not happened!
    It also appears to me that God has not only blinded a remnant of Israel, but many in His own body fail to discern these current and near future events.


     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Which your doctrine on Rom.11, though very close to the truth, still misses, because you have failed to recognize other relevant Scripture like Zechariah 12:10-14 about Israel mourning for Christ Jesus when He returns. Even with the parable of the barren woman (Isa.54) which Jesus quoted in Luke 23 to the daughters of Jerusalem that wept for Him, it is about their deceived children being in shame at His return.

    So like the old saying, "It ain't over until the fat lady sings." Not all of the seed of Israel today are Communists and hate God. Many of them love God, it's just they are blinded about our Lord Jesus being The Christ (Messiah). When God removes their blindness He put upon those, then they will see their mistake which is what those Scriptures about their shame is about. Then those too will believe on Jesus Christ. And THAT... too is what Paul was pointing to at the latter part of Romans 11.
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

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  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where do you see that repeated in the New Will and Testament?
     
  11. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    No true authentic New Testament Bible is called that ^_^
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Heb_9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    Heb_9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

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  13. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Once AGAIN you fail to understand
    No true authentic New Testament Bible is called "New Will and Testament"
    Was that really too difficult for you to see I was referring to the NAME of the Holy Bible -New Testament ? or would you prefer "New Will and Covenant" maybe that is written on the cover of the bible you read :)
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Look at your own will (if you've made one). What does it say on the first page?
     
  15. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    That would not be the Holy Bible or Holy Word of God , I have seen your posts of how you try to make your point , but the Holy Bible is a living word of God , not a paper written for the dead, and as I said no bible is called a New Will and Testament - it is simply New Testament as in New Law or New Contract or New Covenant
     
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then what does this mean?
     
  17. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Christ is the testator -who had to die -otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator lives

    Jesus never said any part of the law has been revoked but he did say :
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


    Since the New Law came into effect did it revoke or repeal or replace :

    Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
    Thou shalt not kill.
    Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Right; the law is repeated in the New Testament, distilled by Christ down to its essence:

    Matthew 22
    35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    Where in the New Testament did Christ repeat or distill the Old Testament land promises to the nation of Israel?
     
  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    In Romans 9:6-8 we see Israel the Church

    In Revelation 22:1-5 we see the Land promise, of the New Hea en, Earth, and Jerusalem To Israel The Church :)

    In 1 Peter 2:9 we see the Church is a Holy Nation, and the Church is the Israel Of God, and the Church is promised a New Heaven, Earth and Jerusalem.

    There ya have it, the Land promise to Israel, The Holy Nation Of God, in the New Testament :)

    You Thought You Were Gonna Cheat The Holy Nation, The Israel Of God, Out Of Their Land Promise :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When Jesus forgives the Jews which He blinded so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles, then you will see how He is able to graff them back into their 'own' tree like Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11. The only reason you would be against that is because of some form of hatred against them in your being. You need to get rid of that.
     
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