Trump deliberately "up" played Covid threat

Sanoy

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Because it doesn't matter what countries - there are no countries using a different metric than the US, as @NotreDame said. Since you can't disprove that you are dodging and deflecting as if it matters whether the countries were named or not. It doesn't matter except if there are countries using a different metric and that burden of proof is on you.


The same story also admits that he "may have been removed from the state's numbers", so thanks for the pathetically bad "proof" that doesn't prove your point.

People who die of pneumonia also get counted as cancer deaths - is that wrong?


That's right, the states manage the states, and the Federal Government takes revenue out of blue, Democratic states and redistributes it to red, conservative Republican states. It's welfare for conservatives.


If you don't like your time wasted then stop wasting your time. It's not wasted "by" anyone else - if your time is wasted it's YOU who is wasting it. If someone else is wasting your time it's YOU who is allowing it. You are the one who has control over your time. Stop blaming other people and take responsibility. To whine and cry that someone else is wasting your time is nothing but blaming and irresponsibility. Nobody can waste your time, only YOU can. YOU are allowing it. Get a clue instead of being irresponsible and blaming others for your problems that you create for yourself. Maybe it's that irresponsible attitude that is at the core for you not understanding these issues and falling back on a welfare state mentality.
There are no countries not using death as a metric, but not all countries are using the same metric in regards to comorbidities (1)

I gave you an example of comorbidity, that was the purpose of the example. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying there are differences in counting. Do you not even understand what you have inserted yourself into here as well? Good grief man, calm down and know what you are doing before you post.

Again you digress.

Going to take your advice, as well as my prior statement, on not having my time wasted. Bye, it wasn't a pleasure to talk to you Christian, nor did you ever intend it to be. What have you become brother.
 
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Tom 1

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He has a point there, even if you'd rather not recognize it.

He was accused of downplaying the threat, and he admitted that he'd downplayed it when speaking about it, so as not to cause panic. But he is right that, at the same time as he was trying to reassure the country, he was actually taking stronger steps to DO SOMETHING to combat the spread of the virus than he gets credit for.

Yes, his explanation is in accord with the history of the matter.

No, it isn’t. His ‘China ban’ was a limited set of restrictions weeks after some major US airlines had already decided to cancel all flights from China independently. The EU ban was a transparent and very belated attempt to make it look like he was doing something, after having taken barely any action at all for 7 weeks after the initial warnings about the virus.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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There are no countries not using death as a metric, but not all countries are using the same metric in regards to comorbidities (1)
So when @NotreDame asked you "Which countries has the U.S. been compared to but who use a different metric? How are/is the metrics different?" why didn't you reply with your "comorbidity" response instead of saying "the person didn't say which countries"??? Because you know your comorbidity response does't hold water.

I gave you an example of comorbidity, that was the purpose of the example. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying there are differences in counting. Do you not even understand what you have inserted yourself into here as well? Good grief man, calm down and know what you are doing before you post.
No, you gave an example of a hyped up story that admits its own inaccuracy. Even IF it had any validity, it's ONE example out of millions of cases and is meaningless. You can find people who die of pneumonia and have the cause attributed to cancer; but that's because certain illnesses are direct causes of a condition that causes death.

If someone gets shot and bleeds to death, it would be correct to attribute the death to being shot even though the actual, direct cause of death is blood loss. These stupid games are nonsense and a distraction. Until you can provide comprehensive evidence that Covid deaths are being falsified you have NOTHING. Stop wasting your own time.

Again you digress.
No, you digress. But you've demonstrated for all to see that you're prone to waste your time and then blame others for it.

Going to take your advice, as well as my prior statement, on not having my time wasted.
If you're taking my advice you'd admit to yourself and everyone that your time isn't passively being wasted by anyone else but rather that you are actively choosing to waste your own time. If wasting your time bothers you so much then why do you choose to do it? And if you're going to choose to waste your own time, that's perfectly fine, but why do you then whine and cry about it? Do you have no understanding that your choice to spend your time is entirely your choice and not under anyone else's control? Have you conditioned yourself to believe the myth that you created that other people have control over your time? Or do you choose to give people control over you and your time? No matter which one it is, the fact is that you are the one who makes the choice to spend your time the way you want, so if your time is being wasted then it is you and absolutely nobody else who is wasting your time, no matter how much you whine and cry and complain about it. So stop whining and crying about it already (but here you are still whining).

Bye, it wasn't a pleasure to talk to you Christian, nor did you ever intend it to be. What have you become brother.
There are many people in this world who find it is not a pleasure to talk to a Christian so you're in good company there. I am sure I know why it is so bothersome to people to talk to a Christian, so much that it is the opposite of pleasure for them. As for my intention, I am simply having a rational, logic-based discussion on my end. Apparently it frustrates the irrational and unfounded assertions in your end of the discussion and, naturally, it's not a pleasure for you at all. That's fine. As for what I have become, that would be a New Creature in Christ. Any Christian should understand that that is what Christians have become. It's in God's Word, read it and you can find out more about that.
 
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NotreDame

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The person never said what countries. Presumably you would have read it and known that.

Man died in motorcycle crash counted as covid (1). (I don't know if anyone has died of sharks in particular that was a demonstrative)

The person never said what countries. Presumably you would have read it and known that.

Excuse me? It is your BURDEN to substantiate your own refutations. You made a claim and have provided no evidence to support it. I couldn’t care less what someone else didn’t say. I’m addressing what YOU said. I’m addressing YOUR rebuttal. I’m addressing the lack of supporting evidence for YOUR rebuttal.

“Presumably you would have known that” it’s your job to provide evidence for your rebuttal claims.

May I remind you, you claimed, “While the death rates make a nice headline, you can't easily compare death rates to every country because they don't all use the same metric.”

All you had to do was present 1, just 1 country that uses a different metric than the U.S. for death rates. What someone else didn’t specify is irrelevant here. YOU said death rates can’t “easily” be compared to “every country.” You specified with “every country.”

So, stop cowering behind the irrelevant idea the other poster didn’t specify, so you can’t answer. YOU specified your own rebuttal.

Hence, it’s your job to support your claim about different metrics used than the U.S.

Which brings me to another point. Who cares, other than you, if the death rate can’t be compared to every country? The U.S. isn’t being compared to every country in terms is it’s death rates. It’s being compared to first world industrialized nations, like, countries in Europe, South Korea, Ice Land, Canada, NZ, Australia.

Is there a rational person comparing U.S. death rates to “every country” such that the U.S. death rate is compared to Somalia’s?

When people compare the U.S. death rate to other countries, they are not contemplating “every country.” The U.S. death rate has been compared to its allies in Europe, Germany, France, Spain, and other nations, such as Ice Land, Japan, Taiwan, Canada, NZ, Australia. Those nations, highly developed, industrialized nations, have been a basis of comparison to the U.S. for purposes of comparing death rates, inter alia.

The states manage the states, that is why you elect them, to manage the states, it's resources, and its cities. This seems clear enough not to require explanation.

The only thing clear enough is death. Other than that, nothing else is “clear enough” to avoid substantiating one’s claims. Your reply is a defensive one, at times invoked by those who cannot defend what they’ve said, and claim what they have alleged is obvious. The fable “it’s obvious” fallacy.

To address your point, something I can do without claiming it’s “clear enough” you are wrong.

The states aren’t the only entity in existence. Yes, there are the states and the federal government and the two have a co-existing relationship, they aren’t feuding parents completely divorced and separated from each other. They have interacted since the inception of the U.S. Constitution, and been in a co-dependent relationship since the dawn of the U.S. Constitution. The federal government had been providing support to the states since 1790.

Just as the feds managed a response to help New York after 9-11. Just as FDR and the feds managed a response to assist the states during the Great Depression. Just as the feds, during the Washington administration, at the persuasion of Hamilton, assumed state debt, and began taxing and spending to facilitate industrial development in the North Eastern states. Just as the feds manage a response to natural disasters, such as hurricanes, earthquakes, flooding, fires, and so forth.

So, no, it isn’t “clear enough” the feds aren’t responsible to manage a response given that history and facts.

Yes, you digress. Please stop, I don't like my time wasted, especially by angry hate filled people. I'd rather not hear from such at all.

Ah, an ostensible defensive, visceral reply. You wasted your own time by posting a rebuttal you couldn’t be bothered to substantiate with any facts or data.

And being skeptical about claims in your refutation is not hate or anger. Here at this forum, it is common for people to ask you for evidence to support your claims. It is common for people to ask for evidence. If your reaction is to allege hate and anger when people ask you to substantiate your remarks, then by that logic, there’s a lot of hate and anger because it’s common around here to be asked to substantiate your remarks.

Your approach so far has been the waste of time, your own and everyone else’s.

Just substantiate your remarks.
 
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NotreDame

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Man died in motorcycle crash counted as covid (1). (I don't know if anyone has died of sharks in particular that was a demonstrative)

Okay. So, there’s one example. What do exactly do you deduce from this one example?
 
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NotreDame

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[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]



Excuse me? My request for evidence isn’t a “hateful rant.” I’ve merely asked for evidence to support your claims and scrutinized where your logic is porous or highlighting your own admonitions to me while you ignore them yourself. That’s not hateful.

And are you throwing a diatribe by actually having to support your comments above? Do you actually think you are A.) above providing supporting evidence and B.) above being asked for it?

Did you really think you could make a lot of claims and not be expected to support them? Did you really think no one dare ask you for the evidence? Did you really think how dare anyone ask?

Before going through the articles, I will say you provided evidence of countries using varying metrics to count their death rates.

Now, the relevant question is whether the articles support any idea, generally, or specifically, as to comparing U.S. death rates to some other country cannot be done. Simply, your articles do not make this claim. The articles do not repudiate comparing U.S. death rates to Germany, Spain, France, South Korea, Ice Land, NZ, or others.

Article 1.) It doesn’t take long for this article to infer generally death rates can be compared between the U.S. and other nations. The article says, “Most countries around the world try to adhere to the guidelines set out by the World Health Organization (WHO) for classifying coronavirus deaths...”

The rest of the article is devoted to specifically discussing Russia, Belium, Iran, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan, along with China. The article does not say there isn’t a metric the U.S. and other countries share.

Article 2.) Doesn’t argue the U.S. uses X metric, and other countries use Y. Rather, the article explores the metric of excess deaths. This has been invoked by a member of the Administration, specifically Doctor Scott Atlas.

It is important to understand what “excess deaths” means. The idea is to take the previous years’ deaths, or some number of preceding years, over the same tenure of time as Covid-19, and assess how many deaths are above, exceed, in “excess” of the prior year or years over some specific amount of time. The idea is the “extra” deaths must be related to Covid-19.

The article then places countries into three categories based upon their metric used to count Covid-19 deaths. 1.) narrow defintion 2.) mixed approach and 3.) broad defintion.

The article then proceeds to examine the disparity in those countries in relation to excess deaths.

The article concludes nations with narrow definition have a greater disparity in excess deaths. The nations with more loose and broad meanings have less of a disparity in excess deaths.

The article then explores the flaws with excess deaths. A flaw is it is unknown how many excess deaths are attributable to COVID. Looking at excess deaths as a metric may count a lot of deaths not attributable to Covid-19.

And the article does not rule out comparing death rates between countries. The article isn’t devoted to any such notion. The article, in finding some countries use a meaning similar enough to be lumped into three categories with other countries, certainly implies a comparison can be made.

So Article 1 doesn’t get you to where you want to go.

Article 3.) Is an article looking at excess deaths. It doesn’t support any notion there can’t be a comparison of death rates.

Article 4.) Is a general commentary stating differences exist but very few specifics in regards to countries.

States manage the states. They began autonomously, and they continue autonomously. As the name suggests, it is the United STATES of America. The Feds provide assistance per that unity. I never said the feds are not responsible in any way.

You actually think the title, “United States of America,” answers the precise question of the relationship between feds and the states in response to the pandemic? It doesn’t. It is a title for the country, the title isn’t a detailed manifesto of the intricate relationship between the two entities.

You attempted to deflect blame from the Trump Administration onto the states. But there’s nothing in the Constitution that precludes a national response and assistance to the states, plus the federal government is positioned more favorably to provide a sufficient response to control the virus nationally.
 
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childeye 2

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Yes it is Covid19, and he said it was because of a panic, IE downplay the threat. That was the context of playing it down. I encourage you to listen to both fully so that you understand them both before continuing to comment on them.
I understood that from the start. The point I made is that Trump dismissed the premise of the question altogether by answering in a different context.
 
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