Trump deliberately "up" played Covid threat

[lasthero]

You have failed to recognize an ad absurdum. If you recklessly assign blame geographically, it's only going to assign blame to democrats regardless of whether they are duly responsible for it or not.

It's a good thing I'm not being reckless about it.

And you keep on ignoring how out of date the source we're talking about is. Why is that?

 

[Sanoy]

It's a good thing I'm not being reckless about it.

And you keep on ignoring how out of date the source we're talking about is. Why is that?

No, the person who made the claim I responded to was. Have you forgotten what you even responded to?

I didn't ignore it. I don't need to respond at all because you keep making excuses for why democratic cites had to have such high death rates. I just mentioned the ad absurdum with a single source, not understanding that, you continued to provide reasons for why it must be so.

 

[lasthero]

I didn't ignore it. I don't need to respond at all because you keep making excuses for why democrat cites had to have such high death rates.

I'm not making excuses, merely explaining why that is, and showing why it's still fair to compare American to other countries in terms off COVID-19 response.

Again:

-Rural areas are less effected by an outbreak than urban ones. Democrats tend to be in control of populated areas. That areas under Democratic control are the most effected are isn't surprising, it's expected.
-Other countries have similar setups, and experienced similar problems, but in smaller proportion overall. So it's fair to judge country by country.
-Your data is out-of-date. It's from a time when the country was still recovering from the first hit of COVID-19, when the botched federal response left most of unprepared. That picture has changed quite a lot since then.

 

[Sanoy]

I'm not making excuses, merely explaining why that is, and showing why it's still fair to compare American to other countries in terms off COVID-19 response.

Again:

-Rural areas are less effected by an outbreak than urban ones. Democrats tend to be in control of populated areas. That areas under Democratic control are the most effected are isn't surprising, it's expected.
-Other countries have similar setups, and experienced similar problems, but in smaller proportion overall. So it's fair to judge country by country.
-Your data is out-of-date. It's from a time when the country was still recovering from the first hit of COVID-19, when the botched federal response left most of unprepared. That picture has changed quite a lot since then.

Again, can I get you another shovel.

I didn't ignore it. I don't need to respond at all because you keep making excuses for why democratic cites had to have such high death rates. I just mentioned the ad absurdum with a single source, not understanding that, you continued to provide reasons for why it must be so.

 

[lasthero]

Again, can I get you another shovel.

I didn't ignore it. I don't need to respond at all because you keep making excuses for why democratic cites had to have such high death rates. I just mentioned the ad absurdum with a single source, not understanding that, you continued to provide reasons for why it must be so.

Okay, whatever, I guess we're done.

 

[childeye 2]

The premise of "downplay" came from news headlines not trump. He didn't say, "downplay it", he said "Play it down". It means the same thing, but it tells you what is provoking her question and why she associated her question with harm. It's an unintended loaded question. "Have you stopped beating your wife, why are you avoiding the question!!!" She has attributed two different things together that don't belong, does he answer based on the screwed up understanding of the Woodward report, or the reality of the semantic meaning of her question (harm). He answered based on the meaning of her question, harm because the effect on her community was clearly her concern, not the meaning of the Woodward statement.

When Trump said he played "it" down, "it" is "covd19", with all of it's negative aspects including the disproportionate harm it would cause.

The student interjected: “Did you not admit to it yourself?” The student can only be referring to the Woodward tape.

 

[NotreDame]

In several different ways, I find that scenario to be defective.

What you “find” is irrelevant. What the evidence supports and what can be deduced from the evidence matters.

Trump’s meager reaction and his lack of action shows he “up played” the virus as well as Hoover “up played” the initial stages of the Great Depression.

The travel ban for China was so porous and limited that it kept nearly no one out.

His failure to act is telling.

1. Trump didn’t impose a quarantine or NYC, NY, or any state with an outbreak at the onset of exponential growth.https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/28/coronavirus-latest-news/?outputType=amp
2. Trump did not choke of flights into and out of NYC, NY, or NJ or any state with onset of exponential growth. This allowed NY to spread the virus nationally. Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks
3. Failure to encourage masks, which hasn’t changed by his own actions.
4. No national testing program. How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air” | Vanity Fair (National testing program as a possibility isn’t denied, the reason for refusing national testing is disputed by Trump Admin).
5. Pressured states to open before they met certain criteria to do so.
6. Made false or misleading remarks about the virus, number dead, and how well the nation was doing in response to the virus.
7. Contrast U.S. response to other countries, South Korea, Canada, Germany, Ice Land, NZ, and how well they have done, and by those examples, one understands how Trump has been an empty suit.

 

[NotreDame]

Yeah, but we're not allowed to compare Trump's response to other countries...at least not in a meaningful way.

That's not 'fair'.

Of course not, makes him look incompetent and illustrates Trump as incompetent in this area.

 

[NotreDame]

I disagree that it makes someone dishonest, we nearly ran out of toilet paper due to a diarrhea panic that wasn't even a part of the threat level that was expressed.

While the death rates make a nice headline, you can't easily compare death rates to every country because they don't all use the same metric. You can get eaten by a shark and be counted as a covid death. Second, 41 out of 44 of the hardest hit congressional districts were run by democrats (1). So if we are going to assign blame for the death toll based on geographical difference let's go a step further, and if we do, we find those numbers derive almost exclusively under democratic managers. It's up to the states to manage their response, not the feds. As a democrat I have come to expect that you'll deny responsibility and search for a way to put it on Trump, I expect that. I'm an independent, I'll distribute it where it belongs, and the data shows it belongs to democratic city and state managers.

While the death rates make a nice headline, you can't easily compare death rates to every country because they don't all use the same metric.

Which countries has the U.S. been compared to but who use a different metric? How are/is the metrics different?

You can get eaten by a shark and be counted as a covid death

Where can this happen? Yes, I’m incredulous, partly because I know a little something about cause of death, multiple causes of death, and how they’re listed on death certificates.

It's up to the states to manage their response, not the feds.

Says who? Says what? There are sufficient emergency statues on the books vesting power to various national governmental entities and the President to address emergencies, such as pandemics. And before you cite to the Constitution, what part of the Constitution would not support a national response, specifically as it pertains to testing, some kind of shutdowns, travel restrictions, wider use of NDPA, and closure of certain locations.

I'm an independent, I'll distribute it where it belongs, and the data shows it belongs to democratic city and state managers

Herbert Hoover responded similarly to the onset of the Great Depression. History has not judged him kindly for it. Indeed, he is remembered negatively for taking that exact same approach highlighted above, of leaving it to the state and local authorities. History will very likely judge Trump negatively for his ponderous response and indeed, he is at times compared to Herbert Hoover in this regard.

But I digress, there’s enough blame for “democratic city and state managers,” Republican “city and state managers,” and for Donald J. Trump and his administration. Yes, all can shoulder the blame are are blame worthy in some way.

Yet, a national health crisis precipitated by a pandemic that didn’t take Trump by surprise requires a coordinated, organized, cogent national response of some kind to effectively combat the virus. The efficacy of a national response to control the virus is illustrated by the countries of South Korea, Canada, Germany, Taiwan, Japan, Ice Land, Singapore, city of Hong Kong, NZ, and others.

Arguably, Trump is more culpable than state and city authorities, Republican and Democrat, for the current situation in the U.S. as it pertains to the pandemic.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

He has a point there, even if you'd rather not recognize it.

He was accused of downplaying the threat, and he admitted that he'd downplayed it when speaking about it, so as not to cause panic. But he is right that, at the same time as he was trying to reassure the country, he was actually taking stronger steps to DO SOMETHING to combat the spread of the virus than he gets credit for.

Yes, his explanation is in accord with the history of the matter.

So now he's admitting and his supporters are admitting that he actually up-played it and spread panic among all the people in the entire nation? You're glad about that?

 

[Albion]

What you “find” is irrelevant.

Ah well, then I don't have to read any further.

 

[Sanoy]

When Trump said he played "it" down, "it" is "covd19", with all of it's negative aspects including the disproportionate harm it would cause.

The student interjected: “Did you not admit to it yourself?” The student can only be referring to the Woodward tape.

Yes it is Covid19, and he said it was because of a panic, IE downplay the threat. That was the context of playing it down. I encourage you to listen to both fully so that you understand them both before continuing to comment on them.

 

[Sanoy]

Which countries has the U.S. been compared to but who use a different metric? How are/is the metrics different?



Where can this happen? Yes, I’m incredulous, partly because I know a little something about cause of death, multiple causes of death, and how they’re listed on death certificates.



Says who? Says what? There are sufficient emergency statues on the books vesting power to various national governmental entities and the President to address emergencies, such as pandemics. And before you cite to the Constitution, what part of the Constitution would not support a national response, specifically as it pertains to testing, some kind of shutdowns, travel restrictions, wider use of NDPA, and closure of certain locations.



Herbert Hoover responded similarly to the onset of the Great Depression. History has not judged him kindly for it. Indeed, he is remembered negatively for taking that exact same approach highlighted above, of leaving it to the state and local authorities. History will very likely judge Trump negatively for his ponderous response and indeed, he is at times compared to Herbert Hoover in this regard.

But I digress, there’s enough blame for “democratic city and state managers,” Republican “city and state managers,” and for Donald J. Trump and his administration. Yes, all can shoulder the blame are are blame worthy in some way.

Yet, a national health crisis precipitated by a pandemic that didn’t take Trump by surprise requires a coordinated, organized, cogent national response of some kind to effectively combat the virus. The efficacy of a national response to control the virus is illustrated by the countries of South Korea, Canada, Germany, Taiwan, Japan, Ice Land, Singapore, city of Hong Kong, NZ, and others.

Arguably, Trump is more culpable than state and city authorities, Republican and Democrat, for the current situation in the U.S. as it pertains to the pandemic.

The person never said what countries. Presumably you would have read it and known that.

Man died in motorcycle crash counted as covid (1). (I don't know if anyone has died of sharks in particular that was a demonstrative)

The states manage the states, that is why you elect them, to manage the states, it's resources, and its cities. This seems clear enough not to require explanation.

Yes, you digress. Please stop, I don't like my time wasted, especially by angry hate filled people. I'd rather not hear from such at all.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Yes it is Covid19, and he said it was because of a panic, IE downplay the threat. That was the context of playing it down. I encourage you to listen to both fully so that you understand them both before continuing to comment on them.

He didn't downplay it. Mr Trump responded: "Yeah, well, I didn't downplay it. I actually, in many ways, I up-played it, in terms of action."

So he's admitting to causing the panic, he denies downplaying it. Are you now saying he's lying and that he actually downplayed it?

 

[Sanoy]

He didn't downplay it. Mr Trump responded: "Yeah, well, I didn't downplay it. I actually, in many ways, I up-played it, in terms of action."

So he's admitting to causing the panic, not downplaying it.

I thought I was clear about not liking my time wasted. I have already explained this. Please understand the conversation before entering yourself into it.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I thought I was clear about not liking my time wasted. I have already explained this. Please understand the conversation before entering yourself into it.

It's clear you're unable to explain your own assertions. Trump himself said he didn't downplay the threat of Covid and you said exactly the opposite. And here you are dodging and deflecting.

It's as inane as when you claimed that "you can't compare the US to other countries" and then were asked which countries use a different metric and then you dodged that also. Inane and time-wasting.

And you're not fooling anyone.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The person never said what countries. Presumably you would have read it and known that.

Because it doesn't matter what countries - there are no countries using a different metric than the US, as @NotreDame said. Since you can't disprove that you are dodging and deflecting as if it matters whether the countries were named or not. It doesn't matter except if there are countries using a different metric and that burden of proof is on you.

Man died in motorcycle crash counted as covid (1). (I don't know if anyone has died of sharks in particular that was a demonstrative)

The same story also admits that he "may have been removed from the state's numbers", so thanks for the pathetically bad "proof" that doesn't prove your point.

People who die of pneumonia also get counted as cancer deaths - is that wrong?

The states manage the states, that is why you elect them, to manage the states, it's resources, and its cities. This seems clear enough not to require explanation.

That's right, the states manage the states, and the Federal Government takes revenue out of blue, Democratic states and redistributes it to red, conservative Republican states. It's welfare for conservatives.

Yes, you digress. Please stop, I don't like my time wasted, especially by angry hate filled people. I'd rather not hear from such at all.

If you don't like your time wasted then stop wasting your time. It's not wasted "by" anyone else - if your time is wasted it's YOU who is wasting it. If someone else is wasting your time it's YOU who is allowing it. You are the one who has control over your time. Stop blaming other people and take responsibility. To whine and cry that someone else is wasting your time is nothing but blaming and irresponsibility. Nobody can waste your time, only YOU can. YOU are allowing it. Get a clue instead of being irresponsible and blaming others for your problems that you create for yourself. Maybe it's that irresponsible attitude that is at the core for you not understanding these issues and falling back on a welfare state mentality.

 

[Sanoy]

It's clear you're unable to explain your own assertions. Trump himself said he didn't downplay the threat of Covid and you said exactly the opposite. And here you are dodging and deflecting.

It's as inane as when you claimed that "you can't compare the US to other countries" and then were asked which countries use a different metric and then you dodged that also. Inane and time-wasting.

And you're not fooling anyone.

When you appear to catch yourself up with the conversation you are inserting yourself into I will respond. Until then you are wasting my time, and if you continue to do so I will simply ignore you.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I thought I was clear about not liking my time wasted. I have already explained this. Please understand the conversation before entering yourself into it.

If you don't like your time wasted then stop wasting your time instead of whining and crying about it like a spoiled baby. Take responsibility for your own time and stop wasting it. As for the conversation, I understand it perfectly well; it's you who seems to have problems with reading comprehension (among other things such as personal responsibility for your own time and how you choose to spend it).

 

[ArmenianJohn]

When you appear to caught yourself up with the conversation you are inserting yourself into I will respond. Until then you are wasting my time, and if you continue to do so I will simply ignore you.

No, YOU are wasting your own time. But you're welcome to make up excuses for avoiding answering for your own assertions. Just understand that i and everyone else can see through your ruse and you're not fooling anybody. And all the responsible adults in here understand that the only one wasting your time is yourself. What else in your life do you blame on everyone else? Probably everything, which is why you're a conservative, where the name of the game is "It ain't mah fault, it's the [insert other people here]'s fault!!! Poor me!!!" Whine and blame is the name of that game.