Trump deliberately "up" played Covid threat

[FireDragon76]

He is saying that he downplayed the threat and up played the response in terms of action. Which is what leaders do when they need to take care of something that may cause a panic, they down play the threat, to prevent the panic, and up-play the action to deal with the issue.

Trump endangered American lives by attempting to deceive the public about the severity and potentially risks of the virus. That is dishonest, and I find attempts to justify his behavior to be deplorable.

As a result of Trump's dishonesty, the US tops the world in terms of COVID-19 deaths. The US has only 4 percent of the world's population, but it has 1/4 of the world's COVID-19 deaths.

 

[Sanoy]

Trump endangered American lives by attempting to deceive the public about the severity and potentially risks of the virus. That is dishonest, and I find attempts to justify his behavior to be deplorable.

As a result of Trump's dishonesty, the US tops the world in terms of COVID-19 deaths. The US has only 4 percent of the world's population, but it has 1/4 of the world's COVID-19 deaths.

I disagree that it makes someone dishonest, we nearly ran out of toilet paper due to a diarrhea panic that wasn't even a part of the threat level that was expressed.

While the death rates make a nice headline, you can't easily compare death rates to every country because they don't all use the same metric. You can get eaten by a shark and be counted as a covid death. Second, 41 out of 44 of the hardest hit congressional districts were run by democrats (1). So if we are going to assign blame for the death toll based on geographical difference let's go a step further, and if we do, we find those numbers derive almost exclusively under democratic managers. It's up to the states to manage their response, not the feds. As a democrat I have come to expect that you'll deny responsibility and search for a way to put it on Trump, I expect that. I'm an independent, I'll distribute it where it belongs, and the data shows it belongs to democratic city and state managers.

 

[NotreDame]

He has a point there, even if you'd rather not recognize it.

He was accused of downplaying the threat, and he admitted that he'd downplayed it when speaking about it, so as not to cause panic. But he is right that, at the same time as he was trying to reassure the country, he was actually taking stronger steps to DO SOMETHING to combat the spread of the virus than he gets credit for.

Yes, his explanation is in accord with the history of the matter.

A narrow travel ban from China with exceptions as to render it a minimal. According to reports, Trump didn’t want a travel ban at all, it took his staff and others a Sisyphean effort to persuade him, and he minimalized the travel as to render it of de minimis value.

Yet, a measurement of whether he “up played” the pandemic can be measured by what he failed to do. This can be assessed by what the health and scientific community says needed to be done and what other countries did to control the virus. Evaluating this administration’s response in comparison to South Korea, Germany, Ice Land, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Canada, and others, Trump and his administration “up played” nothing.

 

[Albion]

A narrow travel ban from China with exceptions as to render it a minimal. According to reports, Trump didn’t want a travel ban at all, it took his staff and others a Sisyphean effort to persuade him, and he minimalized the travel as to render it of de minimis value.

In several different ways, I find that scenario to be defective.

 

[lasthero]

Evaluating this administration’s response in comparison to South Korea, Germany, Ice Land, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Canada, and others, Trump and his administration “up played” nothing.

Yeah, but we're not allowed to compare Trump's response to other countries...at least not in a meaningful way.

That's not 'fair'.

 

[lasthero]

Second, 41 out of 44 of the hardest hit congressional districts were run by democrats (1).

The source you cite here is woefully out of date. A great many things have changed since May 26. You're also ignoring a lot of nuance that your link puts in - namely, neglecting to mention that those districts are most urban areas where the virus easily proliferates, and that the rate of decline in Democratic areas is greater than in Republican ones.

 

[FireDragon76]

I disagree that it makes someone dishonest, we nearly ran out of toilet paper due to a diarrhea panic that wasn't even a part of the threat level that was expressed.

While the death rates make a nice headline, you can't easily compare death rates to every country because they don't all use the same metric. You can get eaten by a shark and be counted as a covid death. Second, 41 out of 44 of the hardest hit congressional districts were run by democrats (1). So if we are going to assign blame for the death toll based on geographical difference let's go a step further, and if we do, we find those numbers derive almost exclusively under democratic managers. It's up to the states to manage their response, not the feds. As a democrat I have come to expect that you'll deny responsibility and search for a way to put it on Trump, I expect that. I'm an independent, I'll distribute it where it belongs, and the data shows it belongs to democratic city and state managers.

All your defiance does is confirm me in distancing myself from your religious beliefs. You simply aren't demonstrating a socially-responsible ethic, you are engaging in misinformation, and are attempting to change the subject by engaging in ad hominems and poisoning the well.

 

[MIDutch]

Yeah, but we're not allowed to compare Trump's response to other countries...at least not in a meaningful way.

That's not 'fair'.

And "unpatriotic".

 

[childeye 2]

He said he wanted to always play it (that being the threat of the virus) down to prevent panic in the Woodward report, that is what is being compared to the townhall statement in the OP. That is what I was explaining.

The question to Trump in the town hall was 'why would you downplay a pandemic that is known to disproportionately harm low income families and minority communities?' Her question contrasted downplay with harm, not panic as in the Woodward report. That is why he said that he up-played it in regards to action. They were two statements, in objectively different contexts.

We both agree the question is posed in the context of downplaying the danger which was from the Woodward interview. The question is basically asking if Trump had considered that downplaying the danger would be harmful to the community, by not disclosing to the public the seriousness of the situation so as to take the necessary precaution. The question implies negligence in a life/death matter.

Trump dismissed, utterly dismissed the premise of the question and answered in a completely different context than the one posed. He did this even by denying he downplayed it at all, except he changed the context so as to make it appear plausible, when saying he up played it in terms of actions. How do we know this is what happened in our brains? Because objectively speaking the opposite of downplaying the danger is up playing the danger (making it out to be worse than it actually is). It's therefore reversing the negative aspect of the question in the mind, by insisting it ceases to exist altogether when pointing to a positive aspect that has nothing to do with the question.

This allowed him to never address the question posed, but still sound like he had successfully refuted the allegation posed in the question. And that is how sophistry can be used to deceive people.

All that some are able to see, is Trump answered the question by fairly asserting that he himself had taken the necessary precautions when he very very early on and against much opposition, decided to stop flights from China. Those who can see through the sophistry of Trump, and therefore are not vulnerable to his psychological manipulation, can see in all honesty that we still don't know if he ever considered that downplaying it could be harmful.

 

[Sanoy]

Trump dismissed, utterly dismissed the premise of the question and answered in a completely different context than the one posed.

The premise of the question was over harm, which I already pointed out quite clearly. The premise of the response on the Woodward report was threat. The answer she received was because she formed her question regarding harm, not threat.

 

[Sanoy]

All your defiance does is confirm me in distancing myself from your religious beliefs. You simply aren't demonstrating a socially-responsible ethic, you are engaging in misinformation, and are attempting to change the subject by engaging in ad hominems and poisoning the well.

I didn't change the subject. You were assigning blame based on difference in geographic region, I just took your own paradigm 1 step further. I'm not sorry you don't like the outcome of the paradigm you employed, but you don't need to insult my trust in Christ for it.

 

[Sanoy]

The source you cite here is woefully out of date. A great many things have changed since May 26. You're also ignoring a lot of nuance that your link puts in - namely, neglecting to mention that those districts are most urban areas where the virus easily proliferates, and that the rate of decline in Democratic areas is greater than in Republican ones.

You mean some set of nuances that matter in regards to the death rate??? Oh really.... If they matter for your democratic run cities, they matter just the same when totaled and compared country to country. But no, it's not that I didn't consider it, it's that I already considered it before I posted. Regardless of nuance, city and state leaders are primarily responsible for what occurs in their own districts.

Citing a greater declining death rate from ones past irresponsibility is not exactly complementary when falling from such a great height.

 

[childeye 2]

The premise of the question was over harm, which I already pointed out quite clearly. The premise of the response on the Woodward report was threat. The answer she received was because she formed her question regarding harm, not threat.

The premise is based on the Woodward interview. Whether you call it playing down the harm, threat, or the danger of covid, it's still the same thing in sentiment. And it doesn't change the fact that Trump dismissed the negative aspect of the premise altogether by altering the context.

 

[lasthero]

You mean some set of nuances that matter in regards to the death rate??? Oh really.... If they matter for your democratic run cities, they matter just the same when totaled and compared country to country.

There are countries with similar setups to the United States, similar populations, similar situations, that did much better at confronting the crisis. It's a valid comparison.

But no, it's not that I didn't consider it, it's that I already considered it before I posted. Regardless of nuance, city and state leaders are primarily responsible for what occurs in their own districts.

Democrats tend to be in control of Metropolitan areas, whereas Republicans tend to be in control of more rural areas. Pretending like they're both on an even playing field in regards to this pandemic is just dishonest.

Also, again, this data is out of data by at least three and a half months. The stat you were touting is almost certainly inaccurate now, especially after the hit that Florida and Texas took.

 

[Sanoy]

The premise is based on the Woodward interview. Whether you call it playing down the harm or the danger, it's still the same thing in sentiment. That doesn't change the fact that Trump dismissed the negative aspect of the premise altogether by altering the context.

The premise of "downplay" came from news headlines not trump. He didn't say, "downplay it", he said "Play it down". It means the same thing, but it tells you what is provoking her question and why she associated her question with harm. It's an unintended loaded question. "Have you stopped beating your wife, why are you avoiding the question!!!" She has attributed two different things together that don't belong, does he answer based on the screwed up understanding of the Woodward report, or the reality of the semantic meaning of her question (harm). He answered based on the meaning of her question, harm because the effect on her community was clearly her concern, not the meaning of the Woodward statement.

 

[Sanoy]

There are countries with similar setups to the United States, similar populations, similar situations, that did much better at confronting the crisis. It's a valid comparison.

So the other countries had cities just like the democratic cities and did so much better. Can I get you another shovel?

It doesn't matter whether population congregates to democratic cities or not. They are run by democrats. So when you bring up the US deaths vs other nations death comparisons that falls to democratic management.

 

[lasthero]

So the other countries had cities just like the democratic cities and did so much better. Hmmmmmmm.

There was always going to be a problem in large cities. In part, because they were so caught off guard thanks to Trump's lackluster job of preparing the nation as a whole. But these cities worked hard to take care of the problem once things erupted, and they were able to get that problem taken care after the initial hit, like many of the countries that have done better than the United States did.

And, AGAIN, this is all outdated information you're working with, so discussing like this is rather pointless. Your comparison doesn't even apply anymore.

 

[Sanoy]

There was always going to be a problem in large cities. In part, because they were so caught off guard thanks to Trump's lackluster job of preparing the nation as a whole. But these cities worked hard to take care of the problem once things erupted, and they were able to get that problem taken care after the initial hit, like many of the countries that have done better than the United States did.

And, AGAIN, this is all outdated information your working with, so discussing like this is rather pointless. Your comparison doesn't even apply anymore.

You have failed to recognize an ad absurdum. If you recklessly assign blame geographically, it's only going to assign blame to democrats regardless of whether they are duly responsible for it or not.

 

[lasthero]

It doesn't matter whether population congregates to democratic cities or not.

It very much does. Viruses are obviously going to spread more in dense, populated areas.

They are run by democrats. So when you bring up the US deaths vs other nations death comparisons that falls to democratic management.

Why?

Like, let's ignore for a moment that a sparsely populated county and a heavily populated one aren't equally in danger in an outbreak. That's dumb, but let's pretend that's not the case, that we're comparing apples and apples.

What, specifically, did the democrats in those counties do wrong? What did the Republicans do right? What policy did the Republicans go with that saved them?

Because if you can't answer that question, your entire line of reasoning falls flat.

Also, you're acting as if America is the only country where this pattern is followed. In other countries, the rural areas were least affected and the more populated places were harder hit. Overall, however, they still did better than the United States at containing the virus.

 

[Sanoy]

It very much does. Viruses are obviously going to spread more in dense, populated areas.


Why?

Like, let's ignore for a moment that a sparsely populated county and a heavily populated one aren't equally in danger in an outbreak. That's dumb, but let's pretend that's not the case, that we're comparing apples and apples.

What, specifically, did the democrats in those counties do wrong? What did the Republicans do right? What policy did the Republicans go with that saved them?

Because if you can't answer that question, your entire line of reasoning falls flat.

Also, you're acting as if America is the only country where this pattern is followed. In other countries, the rural areas were least affected and the more populated places were harder hit. Overall, however, they still did better than the United States at containing the virus.

Again...
You have failed to recognize an ad absurdum. If you recklessly assign blame geographically, it's only going to assign blame to democrats regardless of whether they are duly responsible for it or not.