Trump celebrates ‘great day for civilization’ as Pence, Pompeo secure Syria cease-fire and pullback

Tom 1

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Exactly!

The Kurds are a minority living within countries controlled by others. The Kurds are also not a monolithic block. The YPG in Syria is apparently a Marxist-Leninist group with real terrorist ties. The YPG is not the more western-friendly Kurd military group as in Iraq.

Sure, it’s complicated. However giving Turkey a green light to bomb them without any pressing reason to do so, then celebrating when they stop is pretty bizarre. Calling it ‘a victory for civilisation’ is just disturbing. If you got out of the way to let some big kid beat up some smaller kids he didn’t like, would you throw a party when he took a break?
 
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Aryeh Jay

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It's funny how quickly many Democrats have become warhawks.

They have always been war hawks.

WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, the creation of ISIS, they all happened under Democrat administrations.
 
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The_Barmecide

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Trump celebrates ‘great day for civilization’ as Pence, Pompeo secure Syria cease-fire agreement

President Trump declared Thursday "a great day for civilization" as Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced terms of a cease-fire agreement that would end violence between Turkey and Kurds in Syria, following a meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara.

The deal is for a 120-hour cease-fire, during which time the Kurdish-led forces could pull back from the roughly 20-mile wide safe zone on the Turkish-Syrian border. All Turkish military operations under the recent offensive known as Operation Peace Spring will pause during that time, and the operation itself will come to an end entirely upon the completion of the Kurdish withdrawal, under the terms of the deal
.​

PEACE IN OUR TIME! (Except the Turks don't see it as a ceasefire and are just asking that the Kurds leave so they don't have to slaughter them all. Saves on bullets I guess.)
 
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The_Barmecide

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It's funny how quickly many Democrats have become warhawks.

I actually DO like Trump's insistence that we disengage from all these endless wars. But there's a smart way to do it. Kneeling before every bloodthirsty dictator and manipulating their zippers with undersized hands is NOT the most strategic means of doing that. Nor is it the kind of disengagement most of us want...even those who want peace.
 
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DaisyDay

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Exactly!

The Kurds are a minority living within countries controlled by others. The Kurds are also not a monolithic block. The YPG in Syria is apparently a Marxist-Leninist group with real terrorist ties. The YPG is not the more western-friendly Kurd military group as in Iraq.
And who decided on these borders that left the Kurds stateless?
 
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yougottabekidding

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I'm not sure if it counts as a cease-fire if only one side agrees to it. The Kurds weren't involved at all in the negotiations and have not responded to it yet.

When one side is firing on another side and it stops - (ceases) that is called a cease fire. Because they are not shooting anymore.
 
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yougottabekidding

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I actually DO like Trump's insistence that we disengage from all these endless wars. But there's a smart way to do it. Kneeling before every bloodthirsty dictator and manipulating their zippers with undersized hands is NOT the most strategic means of doing that. Nor is it the kind of disengagement most of us want...even those who want peace.

You really shouldn't do stuff like that -Obama was bowing to them, not playing with their zippers.
 
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yougottabekidding

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And who decided on these borders that left the Kurds stateless?

Stateless??? Syria is less than 20 miles wide (which is what is being fought over.)

We were to be there for a month, but Mr. Obama's actions or lack thereof has left us there more than a decade -
 
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wing2000

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Stateless??? Syria is less than 20 miles wide (which is what is being fought over.)

We were to be there for a month, but Mr. Obama's actions or lack thereof has left us there more than a decade -

Kurdish populations live in at least three countries....and you might want to check the Syrian map again. In any case, any guesses as to how the Kurds lost out when the West was drawing lines in the 20th century? There's a reason the Israelis sympathize with the Kurds...they once were in the same situation.
 
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JackRT

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And who decided on these borders that left the Kurds stateless?

Why Tyrants Rule Arabs

For 60 years, the West has propped up Arab despots, creating poverty and illiteracy where education once thrived

Gwynne Dyer (Toronto Star --- 20 July 2004)

It was just a random statistic, but a telling one: Only 300 books were translated into Arabic last year. That is about one foreign title per million Arabs. For comparison's sake, Greece translated 1,500 foreign-language books, or about 150 titles per million Greeks. Why is the Arab world so far behind, not only in this but in practically all the arts and sciences? The first-order answer is poverty and lack of education: Almost half of Arabic-speaking women are illiterate.

But the Arab world used to be the most literate part of the planet; what went wrong? Tyranny and economic failure, obviously. But why is tyranny such a problem in the Arab world? That brings us to the nub of the matter. In a speech in November, 2003, President George W. Bush revisited his familiar refrain about how the West has to remake the Arab world in its own image in order to stop the terrorism: "Sixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe ... because in the long run, stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty" - as if the Arab world had willfully chosen to be ruled by these corrupt and incompetent tyrannies.

But the West didn't just "excuse and accommodate" these regimes. It created them, in order to protect its own interests - and it spent the latter half of the 20th century keeping them in power for the same reason. It was Britain that carved the kingdom of Jordan out of the old Ottoman province of Syria after World War I and put the Hashemite ruling family on the throne that it still occupies. France similarly carved Lebanon out of Syria in order to create a loyal Christian-majority state that controlled most of the Syrian coastline - and when time and a higher Muslim birth rate eventually led to a revolt against the Maronite Christian stranglehold on power in Lebanon in 1958, U.S. troops were sent in to restore it. The Lebanese civil war of 1975-'90, tangled though it was, was basically a continuation of that struggle. Britain also imposed a Hashemite monarchy on Iraq after 1918, and deliberately perpetuated the political monopoly of the Sunni minority that it had inherited from Turkish rule.

When the Iraqi monarchy was finally overthrown in 1958 and the Baath party won the struggle that followed, the CIA gave the Iraqi Baathists the names of all the senior members of the Iraqi Communist party (then the main political vehicle of the Shias) so they could be liquidated.

It was Britain that turned the traditional sheikhdoms in the Gulf into separate little sovereign states and absolute monarchies, carving Kuwait out of Iraq in the process. Saudi Arabia, however, was a joint Anglo-U.S. project.

The British Foreign Office welcomed the Egyptian generals' overthrow of King Farouk and the destruction of the country's old nationalist political parties, failing to foresee that Gamal Abdul Nasser would eventually take over the Suez Canal. When he did, the foreign office conspired with France and Israel to attack Egypt in a failed attempt to overthrow him. Once Nasser died and was succeeded by generals more willing to play along with the West - Anwar Sadat, and now Hosni Mubarak - Egypt became Washington's favourite Arab state. To help these thinly disguised dictators to hang on to power, Egypt has ranked among the top three recipients of U.S. foreign aid almost every year for the past quarter-century. And so it goes.

Britain welcomed the coup by Col. Mohammar Gadhafi in Libya in 1969, mistakenly seeing him as a malleable young man who could serve the West's purposes. The United States and France both supported the old dictator Habib Bourguiba in Tunisia, and still back his successor Ben Ali today. They always backed the Moroccan monarchy no matter how repressive it became, and they both gave unquestioning support to the Algerian generals who cancelled the elections of 1991. They did not ever waver in their support through the savage insurgency unleashed by the suppression of the elections that killed an estimated 120,000 Algerians over the next 10 years.

"Excuse and accommodate"? The West created the modern Middle East, from its rotten regimes down to its ridiculous borders, and it did so with contemptuous disregard for the wishes of the local people. It is indeed a problem that most Arab governments are corrupt autocracies that breed hatred and despair in their own people, which then fuels terrorism against the West, but it was the West that created the problem - and invading Iraq won't solve it.

If the U.S. really wants to foster Arab democracy, it might try making all that aid to Egypt conditional on prompt democratic reforms. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
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The_Barmecide

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You really shouldn't do stuff like that -Obama was bowing to them, not playing with their zippers.

Obama bowed in the same way all American Presidents bow as a matter of courtesy. Trump seems to love every dictator he can find. It is sickening that Trump prefers the word of a former KGB officer over our own intelligence community.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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When one side is firing on another side and it stops - (ceases) that is called a cease fire. Because they are not shooting anymore.
If only one side stops shooting, the firing has not ceased, and the side that stopped shooting will quickly start again. No cease-fire is unilateral - that's called a retreat. And Turkey has made it clear that they have no plans to retreat.
 
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Freodin

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Perhaps the Democrats should consider to hire Erdogan to lead the impeachment procedure?

"Here's the deal, Donald. You resign and hand over all your properties as security. And then we will stop calling you names."
 
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Hank77

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Perhaps the Democrats should consider to hire Erdogan to lead the impeachment procedure?

"Here's the deal, Donald. You resign and hand over all your properties as security. And then we will stop calling you names."
Ah, don't worry about Donald he has the best words and the best insulting names.
 
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PEACE IN OUR TIME! (Except the Turks don't see it as a ceasefire and are just asking that the Kurds leave so they don't have to slaughter them all. Saves on bullets I guess.)
They need to get into position for their next push.
 
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cow451

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Trump celebrates ‘great day for civilization’ as Pence, Pompeo secure Syria cease-fire agreement

President Trump declared Thursday "a great day for civilization" as Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced terms of a cease-fire agreement that would end violence between Turkey and Kurds in Syria, following a meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara.

The deal is for a 120-hour cease-fire, during which time the Kurdish-led forces could pull back from the roughly 20-mile wide safe zone on the Turkish-Syrian border. All Turkish military operations under the recent offensive known as Operation Peace Spring will pause during that time, and the operation itself will come to an end entirely upon the completion of the Kurdish withdrawal, under the terms of the deal
.​
AKA, Pence claps while Erdogan takes a victory lap.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Obama bowed in the same way all American Presidents bow as a matter of courtesy. Trump seems to love every dictator he can find. It is sickening that Trump prefers the word of a former KGB officer over our own intelligence community.

Because the KGB isn’t part of the Obama/Soros Deep State…
 
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