Trump and Pelosi

mark46

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Trump is moving the "fight" for a wall into February.

What's the point, other than a campaign issue, which will eb irrelevant after he resigns? He hasn't spent the 2018 monies.
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I actually think that Trump will now abandon the right wingnuts and try to negotiate some with Pelosi on infrastructure (lot of money to his friends0, on immigration and perhaps even on healthcare. He has already passed criminal justice reform, given monies to the inner city, and taken a step on guns.

Pelosi will do her best to reign in the impeachment folks. After all, impeachment is a waste of time unless the Mueller report convinces some of the Senate Republicans to call for impeachment.
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Unless Democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by nominating a leftie, the Democrats will have a very big win in 2020. Even if they lose the presidency, they will win the Senate, more House seats and more state legislatures. All the Democrats need to do is to keep trump standing as long as possible.
 

LoAmmi

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Unless Democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by nominating a leftie, the Democrats will have a very big win in 2020. Even if they lose the presidency, they will win the Senate, more House seats and more state legislatures. All the Democrats need to do is to keep trump standing as long as possible.

Because nominating a moderate like Hillary got us a massive victory.


....

oh, wait.
 
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cow451

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Because nominating a moderate like Hillary got us a massive victory.


....

oh, wait.
Hillary lost because she was Hillary. Period.
 
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mark46

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I have heard this story before. Go ahead, nominate a leftie and lose. This was the prescription after several other losses. McGovern, Dukakis, Mondale. Who will it be this time?
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It took a lot for Clinton to lose, including lots of lefties sitting at home in PA, MI and WI.

It took Comey interfering in the election in the last weeks.

It took a foreign government actively supporting Trump.

It took foreign money, and lots of illegal campaign money.
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It was NOT the nomination of Clinton instead of Sanders that caused Trump to win. Trump would have had an easy time campaigning against Sanders.


Because nominating a moderate like Hillary got us a massive victory.


....

oh, wait.
 
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LoAmmi

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I have heard this story before. Go ahead, nominate a leftie and lose. This was the prescription after several other losses. McGovern, Dukakis, Mondale. Who will it be this time?
=======
It took a lot for Clinton to lose, including lots of lefties sitting at home in PA, MI and WI.

It took Comey interfering in the election in the last weeks.

It took a foreign government actively supporting Trump.

It took foreign money, and lots of illegal campaign money.
=======
It was NOT the nomination of Clinton instead of Sanders that caused Trump to win. Trump would have had an easy time campaigning against Sanders.

Yeah, the story I hear from moderates is that Sanders would have lost worst, but I just disagree. Hillary's message was "I'm not Donald Trump". That's a loser.
 
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cow451

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I have heard this story before. Go ahead, nominate a leftie and lose. This was the prescription after several other losses. McGovern, Dukakis, Mondale. Who will it be this time?
=======
It took a lot for Clinton to lose, including lots of lefties sitting at home in PA, MI and WI.

It took Comey interfering in the election in the last weeks.

It took a foreign government actively supporting Trump.

It took foreign money, and lots of illegal campaign money.
=======
It was NOT the nomination of Clinton instead of Sanders that caused Trump to win. Trump would have had an easy time campaigning against Sanders.
Clinton was the only candidate that was bad enough to lose to a loser like Trump.
 
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Hank77

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Because nominating a moderate like Hillary got us a massive victory.


....

oh, wait.
She couldn't convince many of the independent voters, such as myself, who didn't want another Clinton in the White House or the baggage that comes with the Clintons.
 
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mark46

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Yes, the idea is gone for $5B of designated funds for a big beautiful wall. Trump can declare victory during his campaign. He merely needs to indicate exactly what has been done and is being done to improve the border, based on the recommendations of the Border Patrol. He will get new funds in 2019, just not $5B, and the Democrats will get something, probably DACA citizenship.

This can never be a winning issue for Democrats. The vast majority support Trump on the issue of not allowing illegal immigration across the border, and the limitation of asylum. They even support the aid to the 3 Central American countries. Pelosi is likely to compromise when this comes up several times in the next year and a half during budget and debt limit fights.

"The Wall" funding is dead. Steven Miller lost.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Trump is moving the "fight" for a wall into February.

What's the point, other than a campaign issue, which will eb irrelevant after he resigns? He hasn't spent the 2018 monies.

Those monies will be available for him to pocket on his resignation -- with a parting gift of a Pardon from President Pence.
 
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wing2000

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Yes, the idea is gone for $5B of designated funds for a big beautiful wall. Trump can declare victory during his campaign. He merely needs to indicate exactly what has been done and is being done to improve the border, based on the recommendations of the Border Patrol. He will get new funds in 2019, just not $5B, and the Democrats will get something, probably DACA citizenship.

....he merely needs to find new ways to lie about the wall he promised to build during the campaign. And his core believers will eat it up. To date, only prototypes exist for the faithful to visit on their next trip to San Diego.

This can never be a winning issue for Democrats. The vast majority support Trump on the issue of not allowing illegal immigration across the border, and the limitation of asylum. They even support the aid to the 3 Central American countries. Pelosi is likely to compromise when this comes up several times in the next year and a half during budget and debt limit fights.

Of course the majority of Americans want a controlled border. They always have. The question is, will Trump agree to effective and sustainable solutions (as once endorsed by his own chief of staff), or will he, and the GOP, continue to use illegal immigration as a wedge issue? Here in Arizona, running on illegal immigration has been a losing strategy for a few years now....
 
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mark46

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This is all semantics. Lots of wall construction was approved under Obama, some of which is being completed under Trump. There is lots of repairs and extension of existing "walls" as well as new construction.


The $5B is a phony number. The physical border maintenance and new construction will continue now many what the approved number in the budget. There also will be money for more personnel.

Trump continues to have this as his personal political issue.

It is clear that Americans want to prevent a large influx of asylum seekers. Curiously, it is Republican business men who want to stop the Republican thrust against immigration. They need lots more workers.

....he merely needs to find new ways to lie about the wall he promised to build during the campaign. And his core believers will eat it up. To date, only prototypes exist for the faithful to visit on their next trip to San Diego.



Of course the majority of Americans want a controlled border. They always have. The question is, will Trump agree to effective and sustainable solutions (as once endorsed by his own chief of staff), or will he, and the GOP, continue to use illegal immigration as a wedge issue? Here in Arizona, running on illegal immigration has been a losing strategy for a few years now....
 
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camille70

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Yeah, the story I hear from moderates is that Sanders would have lost worst, but I just disagree. Hillary's message was "I'm not Donald Trump". That's a loser.


I disagree. That's all the media covered. Even MSNBC. They covered every Trump event live. They only tuned into Hillary or cut back to her if she were speaking of Donald. Anything regarding policy we heard very little. I had noticed this in real-time 2016. Even Maddow was running a Trump show from beginning to end, tho it seemed reluctantly on her part. The networks wanted ratings and Trump or Hillary trashing Trump is what they say as ratings gold. They did a disservice to America and I'm still mad about it. Les Moonvees is on record stating Trump wasn't good for America, but he was very good for CBS.
 
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camille70

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Yes, the idea is gone for $5B of designated funds for a big beautiful wall. Trump can declare victory during his campaign. He merely needs to indicate exactly what has been done and is being done to improve the border, based on the recommendations of the Border Patrol. He will get new funds in 2019, just not $5B, and the Democrats will get something, probably DACA citizenship.

This can never be a winning issue for Democrats. The vast majority support Trump on the issue of not allowing illegal immigration across the border, and the limitation of asylum. They even support the aid to the 3 Central American countries. Pelosi is likely to compromise when this comes up several times in the next year and a half during budget and debt limit fights.

They had Trump talked into a DACA deal. Stephen Miller got hold of him and Trump blew it up. I don't think there will be a deal as long as he has influence.
 
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camille70

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She couldn't convince many of the independent voters, such as myself, who didn't want another Clinton in the White House or the baggage that comes with the Clintons.

Knowing what you know now after two years of Trump, if you had a chance to vote differently, would you?
 
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mark46

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I think that folks greatly underestimate the importance of the diminished power of Republican leadership.

Trump WANTS to negotiate with Chuck and Nancy.

Trump problem will be with REPUBLICAN senators. They will approve conservative judge appointments. However, they hate his rogue foreign policy and military policy. I suppose he support for Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders.

They had Trump talked into a DACA deal. Stephen Miller got hold of him and Trump blew it up. I don't think there will be a deal as long as he has influence.
 
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mark46

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They had Trump talked into a DACA deal. Stephen Miller got hold of him and Trump blew it up. I don't think there will be a deal as long as he has influence.

Trump's DACA's deal was better than what the Democrats asked for at the time.
 
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wing2000

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Trump's DACA's deal was better than what the Democrats asked for at the time.

Trump didn't follow through on his commitment to pass a bipartisan DACA deal. And therein lies the problem - no Senator can count on his word. You can claim x deal was better...but it really means nothing when the POTUS waffles from one hour to the next...
 
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TLK Valentine

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Trump didn't follow through on his commitment to pass a bipartisan DACA deal. And therein lies the problem - no Senator can count on his word. You can claim x deal was better...but it really means nothing when the POTUS waffles from one hour to the next...

Indeed -- nothing of Donald's means anything unless he puts it in writing... and even then he has to put his name to it... which he didn't... except he did...
 
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