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Trump Administration argues against basic needs for detain children

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by FreeinChrist, Jun 21, 2019.

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  1. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    That may be because Nazi-like behavior, such as packing people into camps and neglecting them there, tends to be more common in one segment of the political scene than the other.
    Ringo
     
  2. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    I get that by the end....the wall was a misunderstood issue. I get that once you bought into the lies you were told, you may have genuinely believed it was really all about Trump's ego. So let's be clear...the wall was proposed to address a problem.

    The problem is too many people illegally crossing the border. It isn't toothbrushes and soap. That's a symptom of the problem. If you don't address the problem, then the symptoms will just change.

    I'm not going to argue about how effective the wall would be....because that's neither here nor there anymore. You need to demonstrate that you understand the problem before there's any point in discussing solutions.

    I agree with you....and if I wasn't aware that this issue has been steadily growing for years now....I'd 100% agree that the solution here is to just buy the supplies and resources needed.

    The thing is though, unless we address the problem, we have every reason to believe that we'll be right back in this situation soon. What if next year there's a 200% increase in the number of people? Is the solution to just keep throwing money at the problem and hope it doesn't get worse?

    We have every reason to believe that the number of people trying to enter illegally will generally just increase. This is the time to address the problem.


    Toothbrushes and soap are a band-aid. If I could point to a real proposal to the problem that came from the left, I'd agree with you. That didn't happen though....they ignored the problem.

    What Democratic proposals? I looked and I can't find 1...not 1. The closest thing is a very generalized response that we should somehow "fix" the nations people are fleeing....but no real explanation of how that is done or understanding that we can't possibly fix every failed nation.

    The only people making proposals are on the right...and I get the left may not agree, but if they don't have a counter-proposal then they are to blame. They've only stood in the way of solutions.


    Can you show me where any of them actually said that?

    What are you talking about?

    What congressional leaders came to him with a solution? You've had three heads of the same agency tasked with dealing with this mess all say the exact same thing.

    The problem is our laws incentivize people bringing a child and claiming asylum. They effectively sidestep the entire immigration process and get released into the US. It's the same problem as it was 2+ years ago.

    He asked for emergency funding 2 months ago and Democrats are just now responding. He tried to sidestep them in February to get emergency funding and they used the courts to shut him down. If you want to go back further, he ran on the idea that this is a problem and they disagreed.

    There's really no way to admit this is a problem now without admitting he was right the entire time.

    Do nothing to put it out???? He tried to build physical barriers to entering the US illegally. He tried at least twice to use executive powers to change the laws to remove the incentive to come illegally. He tried to work with, and threaten, foreign nations to help with the problem and was mocked for it.

    Who else has tried to address the issue? I know AOC proposed we just allow anyone of latino descent in....but that's not a solution. That just increases the number of people.

    You blame him because it's hard to admit you were wrong. The Democrats don't do anything because not only is it hard for them to admit they were wrong....their jobs are at stake. If you don't want to hold them accountable, then the problem will not be fixed.
     
  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I am glad that, on the point we had been discussing, we agree. It isn't always that way.
     
  4. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath

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    Prison seems to be a “feature” in this view.

    Children being in prison aren’t being care of by the Administration that put them there, but it’s Democrats whom need “locking up”?

     
  5. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    They're not. same time it could be said they're not dealing with reality of the actual situation. Instead they're either conflating or making new situations that are than imposed and or blamed on the Trump administration. The current Democrats in office only focus is obstructing Donald Trump. even if that means bringing these children into harm's way they will do anything to get rid of trump.

    you think that smashing kittens heads with hammers is a good thing?

    so you see how easy a question can become insinuation?



    Deals require a two-way street.
     
  6. variant

    variant Happy Cat

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    That's their right. No one however is making Trump mistreat children except Trump.

    It's what we're actually discussing here. Treating children with less creature comfort than literal terrorists.

    Yeah. Only one side has decided that they are going to not bend at all. What has the trump administration offered up that the Democrats actually want?
     
  7. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    these people are here because every attempt at stopping them from entering our border has been opposed. Including aid in their countries so they didn't have to come to our country. The same could be said by having these individuals stay in other countries so they did not have to enter ours.

    Our current immigration system is taxed beyond breaking. The infastructure is not set up for such an influx that we are presently seeing. That means there's a deficit in all the services that can be rendered. by forcing us to continue to accept more and more and more and more and more people that we cannot take care of his forces in this situation.

    The other reason to this, is they're not coming here for sanctuary. they're coming here for all the freebies and sanctuary cities that the Democrats have to offer. they're going through many sanctuary countries where they can get protection food and aid without having to March all the way to America. They're coming to America to get jobs food and other incentives.
     
  8. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    Glad to see that you agree that Republicans are acting like Nazis.

    Nope. Border crossings are down and have been long before Donny took office.

    Also, neglecting children in death camps is not a "lack of services" or supplies; it's wanton cruelty.

    Only in 2019 America would fleeing to a country for jobs and opportunity somehow be twisted as "bad".

    I guess I just don't share the revulsion you seem to expect from the news that "those people" might be receiving benefits and help.
    Ringo
     
  9. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    No one is herding illegal immigrants into gas Chambers. Seriously get over this stupid ad hominem rant.

    That is absolutely offensive beyond belief and I cannot believe you're just allowed to repeat it over and over again. no one wants to kill illegal immigrants as part of a final solution get it through your head. That is absolutely sick!

    What do you want done? We're supposed to just release them right? Just allow them to go right into the country? and because we don't want to allow that to happen now we're Nazis. stop letting such a large influx of them coming into our country and they won't have to be detained. Simple logic.
     
  10. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    They're only coming through Mexico, and Mexico is in fact keeping some of them.

    But the fact of the matter is, whenever children are taken into custody, they are due a certain standard of safety, hygiene and care. It doesn't matter whether they have committed a crime or not, or whether their parents have committed a crime or not, or whether they were being treated decently before they were taken into custody. If they are detained in custody they must be treated humanely. Saying, "It serves the parents right for bringing them here illegally" or "We can't afford it," or "The Democrats made us do it" are not excuses for inhumane treatment.
     
  11. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    I truly don't care if you're uncomfortable with the fact that I'm calling these camps what they are - concentration camps. No gas chambers disguised as showers are required for a camp to be a death camp when you hold children in poorly-run, neglectful facilities and leave them there to rot.

    If you're uncomfortable, then good. Maybe that will shake some sense - and more importantly, some humanity - into you.

    Don't want to be called a Nazi? Don't act like one. That's the first step. I've no sympathy for your whining and complaining.
    Ringo
     
  12. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    They're children. I want them to be treated humanely. They should be treated at least as humanely as domestic juvenile delinquents who we lock up for committing crimes, which we are not doing now.
     
  13. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Whoa....

    I understand the article presented things a certain way. I understand it's about a case regarding inhumane conditions.

    I actually read the article before I saw the thread. I also read other articles on illegals suing various agencies over inhumane conditions. I can link them if you want, but I thought it was obvious that they are all facing inhumane conditions. It's not as if this is an isolated incident and it's all unrelated.

    Are you saying that any examination of the causes of this situation....any attempt to understand how or why it's happening is off topic???

    It's not as if I'm bringing up unrelated points. I'm posting about the causes of this crisis and all the attempts made to stop it.
     
  14. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    Many people in this thread seem to expect us to feel the same revulsion for scary brown children living among us "clean", lily-white Americans as they apparently feel.

    I do want them to be "just released". It's fine for the government to keep track of who they are, but I see no legitimate reason why they have to be held - in concentration camps or elsewhere - at all. Most immigrants awaiting a hearing return for court because - surprise, surprise: they want to do what they have to do to get citizenship or a visa.

    The fact that these human rights abuses don't have to happen at all is a testament to how sociopathic the current administration has been in the area of immigration.

    Ringo
     
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  15. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    it has nothing to do with crimes I don't know who brought that up but it wasn't me. Our system is purposely being over burden so it will burst and forced Trump to bring these people in. This is a political ploy to stop Trump from curbing illegal immigration. And the children are being used as proof as some kind of evil intent. There are too many people in the system to be properly taken care of. The actual epidemic needs to be addressed instead of just a bunch of symptoms
     
  16. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    Our system was not designed to take on this influx of people. Either the laws or the infrastructure or both has to be changed. By refusing to stem the tide of people illegally entering this country the Democrats are exacerbating the situation. They simply refuse to stop letting these people in. They obstruct every attempt made by this administration to remedy the situation.
     
  17. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    You're full of excuses today - "Well, the system is overburdened!" (citation needed, of course).

    As others have already pointed out: that's not an excuse for the way these people are being treated.
    Ringo
     
  18. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Absolutely wrong and disgusting. There is no excuse for treating children inhumanely. If children are being treated inhumanely in government custody then the resources must be found to improve their treatment. Inhumane treatment of children is an emergency which must be dealt with, whatever steps are being otherwise taken (or not taken) to solve the problem of amnesty seekers.
     
  19. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    What is going on is literally they're trying to force and or push their way through the system. they want to make it so hard and seem so horrible that he must be forced to allow them to come in the country and it's not going to happen. We as a country need some kind of aid or support to handle this many people. Either need to stop them from coming in or you need to give us the funds to detain them properly
     
  20. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    Citation needed.

    Nope.

    Why do they need to be detained at all?
    Ringo
     
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