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Trump Administration argues against basic needs for detain children

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by FreeinChrist, Jun 21, 2019.

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  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Ask Congress. But you know that if anything were done to make the border more manageable, some voters might be consider it an accomplishment of the president, so....

    Over a quarter of a million illegal immigrants have crossed the border this year. About 40% of the border patrol agents are being used to chauffer illegals to new locations and others have to try to process the amnesty claims of those immigrants we know about, but sure, toothbrushes should be the #1 priority. (!)
     
  2. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I’m in no way defending the Trump Administration in this instance. But at what point are the parents going to be held accountable for this? If I knowingly commit a crime with my kids in tow, am I not also responsible for for the consequences of that action?
     
  3. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Trump wanted money for a border wall, where instead money could have been allocated earlier for handling the folks coming for asylum, fleeing violence. It is not a new problem as there have been influxes before, like in 2014. The Senate has a bill for more funding but it is not focused on the migrants. The House has passed a bill for the money the head of Border Control wants, with the restriction being that it is for providing basic needs for the migrants, and not a border wall and such.


    That is a start. Now increased funding needs to come from the congress. The Senate needs to pass the House bill that passed.

    The government had been providing them for longer staying immigrants (in detention) because it was understood as being part of the 'safe and sanitary environment' mandated by federal law, as already stated.


    But it was allocated for building a wall mostly, and other security issues.


    First, stop trying to make this about me. This is not the first time in this thread. Stop trying to make it personal Ana the 1st.

    We don't know they were brought by folks other than their parents. Where is the proof. Lots of folks in those countries do not have papers because much is not on computers. They are archaic. In several articles I saw, the parent was a teen girl there with the child, and both needed basic health and a safe and sanitary environment while awaiting to be seen by an immigration judge.


    That is not correct.
    Majority of undocumented immigrants show up for court
    According to Justice Department data from the last five available years, around 60 to 75 percent of non-detained migrants have attended their immigration court proceedings. That’s determined by subtracting the percentage of judgments entered against migrants in their absence (known as an in absentia ruling) from total judgments entered.​

    But what about asylum seekers? The same article shows they show up at much higher numbers.

    Before the Trump administration ended the program in June, participants had a 100 percent attendance record at court hearings. They also had a 99 percent rate of check-ins and appointments with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to a Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General report.

    "According to ICE, overall program compliance for all five regions is an average of 99 percent for ICE check-ins and appointments, as well as 100 percent attendance at court hearings," the report said. "Since the inception of FCMP, 23 out of 954 participants (2 percent) were reported as absconders."

    In 2015, the immigration advocacy group American Immigration Council published a report that looked at studies from over the previous two decades that examined how well asylum seekers fulfilled their legal obligations. It found studies showed "very high rates of compliance with proceedings by asylum seekers who were placed into alternatives to detention."

    Where do you think all the folks on each coast and the southeast area of the US are going to flee to? The US is going to be hit harder than Central American and northern part of South America.

    BUT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT THE TOPIC HERE. (caps for emphasis, not yelling)

    What I see in the rest of your post is hyperbole, hysteria and a rant.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  4. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    It is not a crime to seek asylum. Some of those parents are teen girls seeking asylum.
     
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  5. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    I think what many are saying is that there is a difference between arguing about giving care and arguing that you're giving the care required by law.

    The Trump administration is not arguing that they want to withhold aid as is being suggested. they are arguing they are meeting the minimum required by law
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Pelosi promised Trump that if the government were opened, she would negotiate funding for a wall along with other needs such as we are discussing. Of course, she hasn't done so now that the government is open.
     
  7. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And let's be clear, this situation has been made worse since Trump has been president.

    An Overview of U.S. Refugee Law and Policy

    Until recently, the United States offered refuge each year to more people than all other nations combined. But the Trump administration has drastically reduced the maximum number of refugees that can enter the United States. Moreover, the United States government has imposed new security vetting procedures on refugees before they can be admitted into the country, which has greatly lengthened waiting times and left many refugees in dangerous situations for prolonged periods. In 2017, for the first time in modern history, the United States settled fewer refugees than the rest of the world.

    reading on:

    The President, in consultation with Congress, determines the numerical ceiling for refugee admissions each year. The State Department and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) are the primary agencies that assess the viability of different refugee populations for admission, as well as the capacity of U.S. government officials to process them. For Fiscal Year (FY) 2019, the ceiling was set at an all-time low of 30,000, down from the previous all-time low of 45,000 set in FY 2018 — although the number of refugees admitted in 2018 was only half of that number (22,415)

    The largest share of refugees who came to the United States during FY 2018 were from Africa, followed by the Near East/South Asia, East Asia, Europe, and Latin America/Caribbean.
    Is a person to be blamed for not wanting their daughter turned into a prostitute or their son become a gang banger or drug seller, or because they do not want to be raped or killed? These people, many of whom are Christian btw, are fleeing violence.

    I would like to see the US government focus on why they are fleeing and use some of our great power to affect those countries - Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and others - as many folks would prefer to stay. Some Americans act like these folks have access to goods. Most make very little. Even in Belize, the average pay for a full day of work is $30. It isn't THAT cheap to live here. Folks are poor. How do they avoid violence?
     
  8. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    I wasn't going to come back here, because despite there being good people here, I'm fairly sick of some stuff here. But then I saw this thread and had to chime in to rebut the people here who are arguing against basic rights for children on the basis of "B-b-b-b-b-but they're illegal!"

    That phrase should join "We were just following orders" in the pantheon of lame excuses that sociopaths tell themselves in an attempt to salve their guilty consciences.

    Firstly, fleeing to this country - one where "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" is inscribed on the Statue of Liberty for a reason - is not a crime.

    Secondly, even if migrating to this country from Central America was a crime, that does not justify the cruelty being shown to these children, their parents, and the other immigrants in border patrol's tender loving care. Period.

    Thirdly, the only """crisis""" at the border is one that was created by the current. unfortunate occupant of the Oval Office. Border apprehensions have been dropping since 2000 (There Is No Border Crisis) and the reason for the disgusting and immoral behavior we're seeing at the border is not an imaginary crisis; or lack of funding/supplies, as another genius tried to say on another forum; it's wanton cruelty.

    If you support that, or argue that it's ""necessary"" because of an imaginary border line, then...I wonder how you can claim to be a disciple of Christ?
    Ringo
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  9. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    No, if you read the article in the OP and others, they want to stop providing what has been expected as part of a 'safe and sanitary' environment that is required by the law.
     
  10. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    AMEN! We are a nation of immigrants. If you are not NA, you are a descendant of immigrants.

    I absolutely agree.


    I do believe that the Trump administration made things worse. In a post above, I quoted this:

    An Overview of U.S. Refugee Law and Policy
    Until recently, the United States offered refuge each year to more people than all other nations combined. But the Trump administration has drastically reduced the maximum number of refugees that can enter the United States. Moreover, the United States government has imposed new security vetting procedures on refugees before they can be admitted into the country, which has greatly lengthened waiting times and left many refugees in dangerous situations for prolonged periods. In 2017, for the first time in modern history, the United States settled fewer refugees than the rest of the world.​


    The idea that basics such as soap and towels and toothbrushes etc are not needed by children is obscene, and arguing such is not Christ-like as I understand scripture. It sure isn't loving one's neighbor, or doing unto others as we would have others do unto us.
     
  11. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    So which way do you want it? I remember specifically you arguing against taking funding from AIDS research and among other things even though it was even a small percentage, to fund bed spaces and even build housing facilities.

    You cannot deny and obstruct every attempt at getting funding to provide these necessities and at the same time blame
    the individual you obstruct for not having them.

    This is a very intentional circus derided to undermine the Trump administration at the expense of these children. These children are being used as proof of trumps supposed illicit intent. These children are being paraded around for political gain.
     
  12. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I would have only argued against that because there are other sources to take funds than from medical research.

    DO NOT MAKE THIS PERSONAL...


    I have already addressed why there has been a bigger problem at the border.

    You know, the Republicans had the House, the Senate and the Presidency for 2 years. They could have pushed through funding for increased judges for asylum seekers. But Trump wanted a wall, and many republicans did not support a wall.

    So don't try and blame Dems for all the problem:
    Bipartisan DACA, border security deal fails in Senate - CNNPolitics
    Trump could have had $25 billion for his wall, and maybe would not have done his Family separation policy and increased vetting, but Rep. Senators nixed it.

    The Wall Funding Deals Trump Rejected

    But this thread is about arguing that soap is not part of a 'safe and sanitary' environment.
     
  13. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    It takes a real piece of work to say "B-b-but these kids are a conspiracy! To make the president look bad!" when confronted with the awful truth of what's being done in our name at the border.

    Sad to see how far our country has sunk in the past few years. Or maybe we were always this bad and it just became abundantly obvious in the past couple of years. Either way, I don't think this country has much cause to celebrate this coming Fourth of July.
    Ringo
     
  14. RichardY

    RichardY Holotheist. Whig. Monarchical Modalism.

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    People whom it concerns should send money and supplies, rather than persistently virtue signal and do nothing.

    All focus is putting accountability on the children, and not the parents(if they are) who, made the decisions.
     
  15. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    It's not personal and I'm not making it personal. You cannot obstruct an individual in every aspect to responding to a situation and at the same time blame that individual for not responding to the situation.

    as far as this only being about resources being denied even you are bringing up family separation and other aspects of this debate. So is the news article referenced in the op. so how is it off topic when even you the creator of the thread is talking about these topics?

    As for the discussion about family separation, there are children that have been stolen from their families. there are others were their parents have been killed and they are used to recycle going back and forth with other family units. There are some children in these family groups quote-unquote family groups... That were stolen when they were around two years of age. And they don't even know that they were stolen or being used by the people there with. It takes parentry testing and or DNA profiling to make sure they're actually with their parents. So they are separated for their safety because we are aware of what's going on.
     
  16. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

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    I should have to send money and supplies for the President to do his job? The Flores Agreement is part of the law of the United States and it is being violated.
     
  17. RichardY

    RichardY Holotheist. Whig. Monarchical Modalism.

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    Fine persistently virtue signal.

    Send the supplies to the border staff. Blankets, soap, pillows. Help make the detention centres into the Hilton or Trump Hotels.
     
  18. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    Personally speaking I don't view these children as a conspiracy. I view them as being exploited for political gain by the Democrats. So let's get that straight. The Democrats have propagated every situation that is ongoing right now. From denial and obstruction of funding, standing against coyotes that are illegally bringing these children in and even the ethical treatment of these children. Every attempt made by this administration regardless of what it is is obstructed. you cannot continually obstruct an individual from performing their duties and their job and then hold them accountable for not being able to do their job.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    If they are seeking asylum legally, yes. But if they are doing so illegally, then why aren’t we holding the parents to some sort of responsibility?
     
  20. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

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    That's what my taxes are supposed to pay for.
     
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