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Trump Administration argues against basic needs for detain children

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by FreeinChrist, Jun 21, 2019.

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  1. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    If you continue to blame Trump and not Democrats....if you and other Democrats decide this is somehow Trump's fault....then why should the Democrats in office do anything? Their seats aren't in any danger.

    If you really care....if you really want to see this stop....you'll have to demand the Democrats work with the president and Republicans to solve the problem.
     
  2. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    Words fail me.

    This kind of cultural myopia is maddening.
     
  3. GoldenBoy89

    GoldenBoy89 We're Still Here

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    Ah, yes. The national emergency.... The emergency was declared because Trump realized he wasn't going to get his wall. Not out of a heartfelt concern for the migrants coming over. Remember, these aren't their best people. They're "rapists and murderers" according to candidate and then President Trump. He got nothing done on this front save for a few wall swatches early on for PR and then suddenly when the Democrats took office he shutdown the government over funding for his wall he himself turned down earlier in his presidency. The only reason he stopped the shutdown he caused was because he wasn't going to give his SOTU speech. Once he saw his SOTU speech convinced no one of anything, he suddenly declares it an emergency.

    And again, this was done mainly to get funding for his wall. That's cinder blocks, concrete and rebar. Not toothbrushes and soap.

    I get what you're saying. It costs a lot of money to keep people in State custody. I get that. Obviously the goal should be to reduce to number of people in our custody and costs and stresses on the system will go down but the fact is, these people are here and they are wards of the state until something is done about them and until then, we have a responsibility to provide the very most basic elements of sanitation.

    Nonsense. The left trying to address the problem does not mean give the president billions of dollars for his wall. That doesn't address the problem, it puts a bandaid on it. That does nothing to help the people already in our custody and wont stop the flood of people on their way for years to come while it is being built. The president and Senate have both shutdown Democratic proposals to address the problem mainly because this issue plays well with their base. If you believe the Democrats are playing politics with this issue, why wouldn't you assume the Republicans are as well?



    They turn down staying in Mexico because the fact is, Mexico isn't any better for them than Honduras or Guatemala were. Mainly because of the drug cartels that run that country, because of the business they do with their neighbors to the north. The United States.

    This isn't an easy issue for any country to address on its own but the one country who stands the most chance at addressing it happens to also be the one that's mainly the cause of this entire mess.

    You don't think I believe the president is responsible for things that happen in the United States? He's to blame, not just because he wanted to take up the mantle of leader but also because his administration has done everything in its power to politicize the issue because again, politics is being played on both sides. A government shutdown and a few tweets about an emergency at the border while at the same time shutting down talks with congressional leaders trying to address the problem is not indicative of someone who is trying to help the situation.

    Yeah, and I still think he oversold the emergency. That's why they're letting things get out of hand.

    If you saw a tiny ember burning and declared it an emergency fire then but also do nothing to put it out and let it grow and grow because you can then lay the blame at others, you're kind of an arsonist. Did you start the fire? No but you also didn't put it out when you had a chance.

    I'm not really interested in what you believe about my concerns for asylum seekers in our custody. I blame the president because this is probably the single issue that got him elected and he has, as far as I can tell, let this problem grow over the last three years while he could have done something to address it instead of building wall swatches in San Diego. What a coincidence that we have an election coming up and he now has opposition in the House and suddenly it's a four alarm fire he needs to put out.
     
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  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I understand. The issues for me are two: these conditions would not exist except that Congress will not give the Trump administration the wherewithal necessary to do a better job of it even after being virtually begged for cooperation, and also that it was the Obama administration which set up and implemented the policies that are now under attack, yet the blame is supposed to go totally to the Trump administration or him personally.

    With both of these, the Congressional opponents of the president want them to continue so that they can be used as campaign issues as the next election approaches an are doing their best to see that they do continue.
     
  5. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    I believe the second portion of that verse refers to children coming to Jesus, not America...but with some of these modern translations, you never know.
     
  6. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    Sorry. I thought prioritizing of funds would be the pervue of the white house and they are prioritizing a raid in cities.
    They are choosing more arrests in lieu of toothbrushes and soap.

    How is that the Democrats fault?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  7. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    No... Really, we're going to block every single attempt of reallocating funds so you can get necessities and funding for these individuals. we're going to obstruct and shoot down every single attempt of legally getting funding through Congress. we are going to block and obstruct every single attempt of keeping children from being illegally smuggled into the country. we are even going to sue you in the courts for trying to source funds that have been appropriated for other departments to ensure that you do not have the funding that you need.

    But you are a horrible bad bad person because you can't take care of these children.
     
  8. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    At a certain point there is abuse, and that is unacceptable, so at that point you use the resources or you can spend more because people do the abusing end up incarcerated which cost MORE more than likely than providing the stuff from the start. There is also the chance that the family could sue for wrongful death and get 100000s or even millions of dollars more resources.
     
  9. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    Why don't the Democrats ever discuss the abuses by Coyotes? Like abducting children and using them to recycle with other groups so that they are assured asylum? those children can literally go across the border 30 times back and forth with different groups of adults, and each group of adults claims them to be their child.Once the group gets in as a family Union the child is recycled over and over and over again.

    Then there are the rape trees found all over the border. we're mainly women and small children between 8 and 16 are tied to a tree and raped to death. Or they are just shackled to the tree and left to die. Democrats aren't talking about these issues and I wonder why
     
  10. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    The best summary of this situation was given by Dick Morris almost a decade ago.

    "Democrats want illegals to come to America and vote but not work. Republicans [at least the GOPe leadership] want illegals to come to America and work but not vote."
     
  11. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    That's the "best summary"? That's a load of old toss. Democrats want them to not work. That's such a stupid claim. I accept that it makes the format of the quote seem clever, but it's just wrong.

    1) the "funding that you need" eh? That's delightfully vague.
    2) They have enough money for a MASSIVE ICE swoop in major US cities. So let's not say there "isn't any money to take care of children". That's a load of old toss. Just admit that you prioritize arresting as MANY illegals as you can OVER providing children with basic hygiene needs. That's what it comes down to.
     
  12. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    Besides the fact of political ramifications such as population controlling the electoral college and how many seats you have, what I see is modern day slavery. Ensuring the population of low-skill low-wage working force to pick their cotton. Every atrocity imaginable that occurred during the African slave trade is occurring today in this illegal immigration crisis.

    the act of smuggling these children into the country itself needs to be stopped.
     
  13. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    We're making progress. You've acknoweldged that they are illegals.
     
  14. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    I don't think "we" are making progress.
    1) I already knew they were illegals, so no progress for me there.
    2) You don't acknowledge the need to take care of children's basic hygiene. THAT would be progress. How shocking is it that THAT is seen as progress in this discussion...in AMERICA. Geez.
    I feel like if you respond to this, I'll just end up reposting the post you just replied to because you didn't address the callous disregard for children that is being displayed.
     
  15. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    No I'm not going to admit your own subjective opinion of what I view as correct. I actually care about these individuals and I believe they are a victim of a cruel system perpetuated by politics and political gain. From both sides. From all sides.

    As far as the roundups, the funding is already there. And Trump will be sued if he tries to reallocate any of that funding. So that is a completely different topic and situation. that being said, no matter how difficult it's made, no matter how much you try to make this into some kind of emotional situation, these people are leaving this country. It's going to happen.

    And that is exactly what's going on here... Trying to confound and confuse the situation so much that it's not even worth trying. using children suffering to demonize the president of the United States of America. Instead of actually trying to stop the illegal smuggling of children into the nation.

    All this moral outrage about these children is meant to shame people into capitulation. Try to embarrass and ridicule them into not deporting them. Just let them in or you're going to hurt them mr. Trump. Just let everybody in don't you see how much you're hurting them? Truth is the Dems are using their suffering to try to force Trump's hand.
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It is so easy to say that. And to say it that way. But when the facts of the situation are known, it is much less easy to do.

    The president was the one who first said that we have an emergency on the border...and he was hammered for saying it. Now, some aspects of that emergency are becoming known to Pelosi & Co. and everyday citizens who insulted him for bringing this situation to the attention of Congress. Unfortunately, this doesn't mean that they will allow anything to be done to make things better.
     
  17. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    How is it that the funding is there for a round up but it isn't there to manage and appropriately maintain the individuals who are brought in by the roundup? What's the point in doing a "round up" if you KNOW you CANNOT adequately care for them?

    You're right, we should be praising the president for his fortitude to allow children to suffer and focussing on enforcement and arrest instead.
    Nope. All I want is for them to prioritize some freakin' soap, tooth brushes, maybe a blanket and, in time, perhaps even a cot.
     
  18. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    He said it. Can't deny he said it. Of course he said it to get a wall built, and he wants to get the wall buil to appease his base. And that has catagorically nothing to do with "bettering the lives of migrant children"; that's pure self service. But....okay, that alone isn't a problem, it's just a bit dishonest.
    But here:
    As I mentioned:
    1) If there IS a HUUUGE increase in migration
    2) If enforcement and arrests become a VERY VERY important issue.
    It should follow that there will end up being more detainees. Like, a lot, a lot more. That really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It just should NOT. And so what kind of budget adjustments were done to ensure proper housing back when the hiring of more agents was a priority? Was that spending increase commiserate with studies that would recommend that level of increase of spending. Or, perhaps was the matter barely looked into and a token amount was tacked on? I honestly don't know; it sounds facetious but I'm actually asking.


    I was having trouble finding numbers for the those doing illegal crossing. I've only seen numbers for arrests and detainments.
     
  19. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    But THIS thread is about the DOJ going to court to get out of giving basic sanitary supplies to detained children that has been the expected minimum of care per a federal law.

    It would help if folks bothered to READ the thread and then stay on topic.



    IF you bother to read the OP and the thread and see what the topic is, then it is easier to address that topic and not bring other stuff up in a hysterical way.
     
  20. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    these people that are getting Roundup already have deportation orders and or failed to appear in court even though they were given representation. They are being deported. Not detained. It is an entirely different department and Trump has been and will be sued if he tries to reallocate funds into the care of these individuals.

    first off you are discussing the symptoms of an epidemic instead of addressing the epidemic itself.
     
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