True saving faith is proven by your repentance

[CharismaticLady]

You know that we are not under the law anymore, right?
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Hi r,

By what method does Jesus free us from the Law? How do we stay righteous?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That's Christ's righteousness, not yours.

Nope. Paul said he labored more than his brethren because of the grace of God that was within him (1 Corinthians 15:10). For why else would the woman keep kissing Jesus' feet? Because her many past sins were forgiven her. When a person is genuinely forgiven of their past sin, they are then motivated to do good works for the Lord out of a thankful heart.

In fact, just keep reading past Romans 5:21 and we read this little gemstone (that you no doubt will reject).

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Romans 6:4-6).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Totally arbitrary. You are just guessing what sins YOU think are the bad ones. Christ died once for all sin, not just certain sins you think you need saved from, while the others you just tell God, " I got this one. I'm righteous enough to secure my own salvation in this area. " Good grief.

First, I don't have to guess as to which sins are the bad ones. The Bible teaches that certain sins can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8). The Bible teaches that obedience to certain commands of God is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).

Second, there are clearly degrees of sin taught in the Bible; So not all sin is the same. Jesus said there is a greater sin (John 19:11). Speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost is the kind of sin that is unforgivable (Matthew 12:32). Fornication is the kind of sin that one does towards their own body, while all other sins are done outside the body (1 Corinthians 6:18). In 1 John 5:16-17 it says that there is a sin that does not lead to death while there is a sin that leads to death.

Three, while Christ died for all sin (a.k.a. the Provisional Atonement), that does not mean everyone is forgiven. A person has to properly apply Christ's sacrifice to their life. You believe it is simply by having a belief alone on Jesus as your Savior, and or in accepting Him, etc.; But a true faith shows itself true by its works (James 2:18). For faith without works is dead (James 2:17); Because we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). This would be the work of God done through us (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5) by our surrendering to the Lord, and not our own works that we would boast in ourselves in doing (Ephesians 2:9). We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8) but we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10). For a person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). A person is capable of not seeing God if they do not follow after holiness (Hebrews 12:14).

Four, the Bible clearly teaches that we have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, Proverbs 28:13).

So I am sorry to inform you that things are not as you say.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Yes, we are now called to obey a law of love. Do we do that perfectly?

1 John 1:8
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You may believe that you have always confessed everything perfectly if you wish. I suspect that believing one can do anything perfectly is a sin in itself, because it's pride.

In Romans 8:1 in the King James, it says "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Walking after the Spirit is going to give us the fruits of the Spirit like: Love, joy, peace, etc. (Galatians 5:22-23). The works of the flesh are sins such as murder, hatred, drunkenness, idolatry, etc. (Galatians 5:19-21).

1 John 1:8 is a favorite within the "Secure in One's Sin Salvationist" camp. Little do they realize that no other surrounding verse supports their interpretation. In fact, the context says the exact opposite. 1 John 1:10 is saying that if we say we have never sinned (past tense) we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. So this is a denial of sin's existence. We both agree that we have sinned in the past as a part of our old life. So 1 John 1:10 would be a denial of past sin (When they have sinned). 1 John 1:8 is saying a similar thing, but it is saying that one does not have sin when they sin in the present. It is a denial of sin's existence when a person happens to fall into sin. John gives us the proper solution to resolve sin and that is by confessing of sin so as to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 1:9). John is not saying that if we must admit that we sin in thought, action, and deed 24/7. If this was the case, then John would be falsely teaching contrary to the words of Jesus who told us to "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). Surely the apostle John is not teaching against the words of Jesus. Paul had stern warnings against those who did so (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I confess sins in a general way most every night, and some that God brings to mind whenever. But confessing them doesn't save me. That was a done deal when I first accepted Christ. Confessing is important because it keeps our communication with God honest.

That's not good enough. You have to believe 1 John 1:9 is one of the solutions for dealing with sin. For if you tell a child that future sin is forgiven them and you never seen them again, they could turn God's grace into a license for immorality and their blood would be on your hands for teaching them something that led them into sin.

 

[Al Touthentop]

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

And who are those "in Christ Jesus?"

Those who he has explained in the previous two chapters were baptized. And what did he say right before he told them what their baptism did for them?

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Now, why would he even have to ask that question if sin were permitted because we're now "under grace?"

You may believe that you have always confessed everything perfectly if you wish. I suspect that believing one can do anything perfectly is a sin in itself, because it's pride.

There you go again making unfounded accusations as if it is a substitute for an actual argument. I believe that we can be perfect because Jesus commanded us, "be perfect, for your father in heaven is perfect." But even if we can't be perfect in practice, Jesus makes us perfect through this process John tells us about in his first letter.

And then there's Jesus himself, a human being who followed the law of Moses perfectly. He came to earth as a human to prove that it could be done. Now, I personally know I am not perfect but I strive to be that because Jesus set the example and I want to follow it. I take great comfort in the fact that God's grace and mercy allow me to remedy mistakes I make and that he is faithful to forgive me when I fall. He doesn't however, forgive me in advance so I can just do any old thing and pretend nothing's wrong. The purpose for constant repentance and confession is to train my conscience so that instead of making those mistakes again and again, I learn from those mistakes.

 

[renniks]

Hi r,

By what method does Jesus free us from the Law? How do we stay righteous?

" If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.

" For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith."

" the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;"

 

[renniks]

For why else would the woman keep kissing Jesus' feet? Because her many past sins were forgiven her. When a person is genuinely forgiven of their past sin, they are then motivated to do good works for the Lord out of a thankful heart.

No one is debating whether we do good works.

 

[Al Touthentop]

In 1 John 5:16-17 it says that there is a sin that does not lead to death while there is a sin that leads to death.

I would argue that the article's absence there does not give an indication that it is a specific sin (a sin). We know that all sin leads to death - a broken relationship with God. But here I think John means death in the permanent sense - condemnation on the day of Judgement - and he's talking about unrepentant, continuing sin rather than a particular commandment.

I think John is telling us that if one prays that God forgive an unrepentant sinner, he's actually praying against God's will. And if he does that within the earshot of the unrepentant sinner, he's giving the impression that we give our blessing to this person to continue sinning unrepentantly and God will forgive him by our intercessionary prayer. It's a bad practice for us and it goes against God's will for both us and that person. God doesn't want him to go to hell, but he also doesn't want him to continue sinning as if it doesn't have any consequences.

 

[renniks]

fact, just keep reading past Romans 5:21 and we read this little gemstone (that you no doubt will reject).

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Romans 6:4-6).

Why do you suppose Paul has to tell Christians not to let sin reign over them? Should they not already be perfect in every way possible?

 

[renniks]

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Now, why would he even have to ask that question if sin were permitted because we're now "under grace?"

Obviously, he has to urge them not to sin because they ( and we) still do. No one is capable of sinless perfection.

 

[Al Touthentop]

" If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.

Abraham was not justified by his own works but by obedience to the works that God commanded.

" For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith."

He didn't have to have a written law, God's words to him were enough. And God's promise and commands did not come through a written law. Abraham was righteous prior to the law being delivered.

" the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;"

What you're doing here is called "cherry picking." You are trying to redefine the entire New Testament's meaning through hand selected verses which you think therefore negate all of the other words. But no scripture negates another. They harmonize with one another. So you have to incorporate these verses into the entire gospel. It's like saying that when Jesus commanded we be baptized, "he that believes and is baptized shall be saved," is negated in Romans 10 when Paul says that confessing Jesus with your mouth will save you. People preach this as if it has replaced the previous information given us in Mark, Acts and elsewhere.

"See! Paul just said that ALL you have to do is confess!" OK....I'll just go ahead and cut out all of those other verses since this particular one stands alone and distills the entire gospel into one sentence.

Not how it works my friend. We are called to believe ALL of the words, not just the ones that we like or fits our pretext.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Obviously, he has to urge them not to sin because they ( and we) still do. No one is capable of sinless perfection.

And so, they could, of their own free will disobey. And John tells us how to get right if we sin. He doesn't tell us to ignore the "little" sins because God doesn't care about those.

 

[renniks]

take great comfort in the fact that God's grace and mercy allow me to remedy mistakes I make and that he is faithful to forgive me when I fall. He doesn't however, forgive me in advance so I can just do any old thing and pretend nothing's wrong

Then I don't know what you are arguing with because I don't believe I can just do any old thing and pretend it's not wrong either.

 

[renniks]

And so, they could, of their own free will disobey. And John tells us how to get right if we sin. He doesn't tell us to ignore the "little" sins because God doesn't care about those.

That was never my point.
My point was that being forgiven does not depend on me remembering ever sin I ever commit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

" If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.

" For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith."

" the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;"

I didn't ask you what you need to do, I asked you what Jesus does, besides freeing you from the law.

 

[renniks]

I didn't ask you what you need to do, I asked you what Jesus does, besides freeing you from the law.

Gives us his righteousness.

 

[renniks]

Abraham was not justified by his own works but by obedience to the works that God commanded.

No,."....if in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

 

[renniks]

See! Paul just said that ALL you have to do is confess!" OK....I'll just go ahead and cut out all of those other verses since this particular one stands alone and distills the entire gospel into one sentence.

Paul also said if you are trying to be justified by works Christ will be no use to you.

" know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified."

" You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
" I ,Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you."

Some just trade one law for another, and are still trying to get to heaven by good works.

 

[Al Touthentop]

That was never my point.
My point was that being forgiven does not depend on me remembering ever sin I ever commit.

It says to be mindful and to confess those sins you commit. That requires remembrance by definition.