True Love Waits. Maybe.

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,110
19,005
43
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,473,140.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I look back on when I was single, and I think a lot of the discussion is aimed in the wrong direction, for girls/young women at least. The way I remember it, girls don't make the decision to have sex because of libido, or even peer pressure; at least not most of the time. They make that decision because they believe they're not valued, not loved, and not lovable; that no one will want them for an ideal life partner. So when they're offered sex it feels like the closest thing they're going to get to love, and they take it.

For girls I think the best preventative measure would be building them up to have the confidence that they are precious enough that someone will want them for a wife, that they will find happiness and fulfilment with a life partner, and that in the meantime they can make a worthwhile contribution to the world in the way that they choose; they don't need to settle for less.

Because it's when they don't believe that, that a quick thrill in the back seat of a car starts to look like the best thing the world has to offer them.
 
Upvote 0

LinkH

Regular Member
Jun 19, 2006
8,602
669
✟43,833.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That's fine when they are 15, but what about when they can drive themselves?

That is an issue. Hopefully, they closer they get to adulthood, the less likely they are to be manipulated, but teenagers are still impressionable. Where I live, 17-year-olds do not usually drive. That may be the minimum age. I'm not sure. It's not normal to see someone that young drive a car. It's Ubers, buses, and hired motorcycles here.

But in rural and suburban America, it's hard to get by without automobiles. I suppose you could just not let a teen have a car and just use the family car or a designated car with permission, but there are still gaps in the schedule that could likely be filled with fornication if the teen were diligently looking for opportunities. The main thing is to teach them what's right and try to nurture them in their walk with the Lord.

It does bother me that society, including schools, encourage dating, dances at middle school, for example, when it's so far away from marriage for them the way society is structured. It is hard for an 18-year-old to work and realistically support a family.

I can speak as a parent of an adult child, and I can say that at that point, or at any point when your child becomes mobile, or when you allow him/her to go anywhere alone, then they can be having sex at any of those times. It doesn't have to be a car, it doesn't have to be at night, they don't have to be dating. That's why chaperoning only goes so far. And bear in mind, this is the voice of experience not only with two teen sons, but also as a former teen myself. A teen that wants to - will. That's why it's more important to make sure that they have internalized the reason why not to have sex.

Now, I'm thinking of a new package to sell: a hidden car cam, an alarm, and a speaker. You see your kid in the car making out, and hit the car alarm. If that doesn't work, mom or dad's voice comes over the speaker, "Hey, what are you doing to my son/daughter."

As a sinner myself, I would not be in favor of preventing other sinners from taking communion. That teaches works, rather than grace.

What do you do with St. Paul in I Corinthians 5, where he says if anyone called a brother be a fornicator, etc., with such a one, no not to eat. He warns about the leaven in the context of Christ being our Passover. I'm all for restoring people who sin. The parable of the lost sheep is in a passage on church discipline. Christians in the church need to live as saints, and if not, the body needs to deal with it. The fact that many churches ignore this does not do away with the fact that it is Christian teaching found in the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

LinkH

Regular Member
Jun 19, 2006
8,602
669
✟43,833.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One of the reasons that young people have sex before marriage is because they believe they can still find a good marriage partner after they do it. They may not think that, but they aren't thinking, "If I have sex, a man/woman I want to marry won't want to be with me."

I spent many years in Indonesia, and there is a stigma attached to sleeping around before marriage. I know it is not always the case, but it is the expectation that at marriage, both male and female will be virgins. If they lose their virginity earlier, that might hurt their marriage prospects.

The Jonas brothers wore purity rings early on. I think one of them, at least, didn't stick with his beliefs on this. But I was wondering if some celebrities like that would make a video clip that said, "I'm so and so, I am a virgin, and I want to a marry a virgin" if that sort of thing could have an effect on the thinking of the screaming tweenaged girls that listen to them. It wouldn't cure the whole problem, but it might direct some small fragment of the population.

If a man comes on a forum like this, on the singles forum or something like that, and says he wants to marry a virgin, it seems like there is a chance that some people will jump on him for being judgmental or even 'immature.' I know there are women who would prefer male virgins. It seems less common. I can't remember a post on that topic, and I don't know if people would jump on her for that.

But I don't see a problem with men who want to marry virgins speaking out and letting that be known. If women realize sleeping around narrows their prospects, that may help. If Christian women see that it narrows the prospects among Christian men, that may help as well. And of course, it could help in reverse if men knew women wanted them to be virgins.

Those aren't the highest motivations for abstaining from fornication, of course, but these type of motivations have led to high rates of virginity at marriage even in non-Christian nations, so the sociological aspects are important.

Ultimately, it is a spiritual problem, a problem of singles rebelling against God. Part of it may be the theology on sanctification and the soteriology popular among evangelicals. Jesus warned if your hand caused you to sin to cut it off. It's better to enter into life halt or maimed than to go to Hell. But nowadays it seems many Christians believe, based on what they have been taught, that sin is no big deal because God will forgive it if they ask for forgiveness. The lack of the fear of the Lord in the culture and even in churches is a huge problem.
 
Upvote 0

LinkH

Regular Member
Jun 19, 2006
8,602
669
✟43,833.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I waited until marriage. What motivated me? I had my own convictions on it. Where did they come from?

- My parents taught me not to have sex before marriage.
- When I was about 12, the youth pastor went through a long and uncomfortable searies talking about the dangers of fornication, light and heavy petting, masturbation, and homosexuality.
- I read the Bible. The part about marrying a girl if you took her virginity left an impression on me. I wouldn't want to make a mistake and feel obligated to marry someone just based on satisfying lust.
- I wanted to keep a right relationship with the Lord going forward.

I decided not to have sex before marriage. I didn't have to make some special promise. It was what God wanted. I didn't swear a vow not to murder strangers on the street, either. These were my convictions from reading the Bible and considering what God required of me.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,386
11,317
✟433,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
One of the reasons that young people have sex before marriage is because they believe they can still find a good marriage partner after they do it. They may not think that, but they aren't thinking, "If I have sex, a man/woman I want to marry won't want to be with me."

I spent many years in Indonesia, and there is a stigma attached to sleeping around before marriage. I know it is not always the case, but it is the expectation that at marriage, both male and female will be virgins. If they lose their virginity earlier, that might hurt their marriage prospects.

The Jonas brothers wore purity rings early on. I think one of them, at least, didn't stick with his beliefs on this. But I was wondering if some celebrities like that would make a video clip that said, "I'm so and so, I am a virgin, and I want to a marry a virgin" if that sort of thing could have an effect on the thinking of the screaming tweenaged girls that listen to them. It wouldn't cure the whole problem, but it might direct some small fragment of the population.

If a man comes on a forum like this, on the singles forum or something like that, and says he wants to marry a virgin, it seems like there is a chance that some people will jump on him for being judgmental or even 'immature.' I know there are women who would prefer male virgins. It seems less common. I can't remember a post on that topic, and I don't know if people would jump on her for that.

But I don't see a problem with men who want to marry virgins speaking out and letting that be known. If women realize sleeping around narrows their prospects, that may help. If Christian women see that it narrows the prospects among Christian men, that may help as well. And of course, it could help in reverse if men knew women wanted them to be virgins.

Those aren't the highest motivations for abstaining from fornication, of course, but these type of motivations have led to high rates of virginity at marriage even in non-Christian nations, so the sociological aspects are important.

Ultimately, it is a spiritual problem, a problem of singles rebelling against God. Part of it may be the theology on sanctification and the soteriology popular among evangelicals. Jesus warned if your hand caused you to sin to cut it off. It's better to enter into life halt or maimed than to go to Hell. But nowadays it seems many Christians believe, based on what they have been taught, that sin is no big deal because God will forgive it if they ask for forgiveness. The lack of the fear of the Lord in the culture and even in churches is a huge problem.

I think the whole "I want to marry a virgin" mentality gets a bad rap is mainly because it places such a high emphasis on the wrong things. It's a bit like saying "I'd like to marry a millionaire"...or "I'd like to marry a supermodel". It causes everyone else to take a look at your priorities and wonder...what's wrong with this person?

Yes, you could marry someone for the fact that they're rich, extraordinarily attractive, or a virgin...but why? Do any of these things matter more than love?

Marrying a virgin doesn't somehow make your marriage more successful. Marrying a millionaire doesn't make your marriage successful. Marrying someone who's super attractive doesn't make your marriage more successful. They all might help in some ways...but they won't matter in the long run.

So there's that...and then there's the fact that a lot of us know someone who tried to marry a virgin and it didn't work out. I know a guy who decided to wait for marriage...and he's still waiting. He's never known love (never been in a relationship long enough to know it) he's never had a wife or family...and that's arguably because of his stance on marrying a virgin. At 41, he's becoming less and less likely to ever marry a virgin...and more and more likely to never experience the happiness that comes from a loving relationship between a man and woman.

At this point, he's going to have one of three things happen...

1. The least likely thing is that he'll find a virgin to marry and live happily ever after for the rest of his days. Even in the highly unlikely event he finds a virgin at his age, what are the chances they'll be compatible as a couple? I'd say even lower than finding a virgin at his age.

2. He will decide to marry a non-virgin....which at his age is going to be tough. It's still difficult to find someone when you're in your 40s, and frankly, it's unlikely that a woman who knows what she's doing sexually will be all that interested in a man who doesn't have a clue. Moreover, he's going to feel like he wasted 20+ years waiting for a virgin who never showed up. There's probably going to be some baggage that he'll need to work through, and what woman wants to sign up for that?

3. He'll die alone. In my eyes, this is the most likely path that he'll end up going down. He'll never find anyone, and as he gets older, it only becomes less and less likely to happen. He'll never experience the joys and happiness of being in a loving relationship...and it's mainly because of his emphasis on the virginity of his partner.

So that's another reason why I think many teens these days don't care about staying a virgin until marriage...it's a risky proposition that can sometimes mean nothing but a lifetime of longing and regret. Who benefits from that?
 
Upvote 0

RedPonyDriver

Professional Pot Stirrer
Oct 18, 2014
3,524
2,427
USA
✟76,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Democrat
I was 34 when I got married...I was NOT a virgin. I'm a firm believer in "try it before you buy it". We were a couple for about 2 years before we got married, spent one of them living together. Why? Because if we couldn't get along under one roof for any length of time there was no point in continuing the relationship and I sure wasn't going to go through the headache of a divorce. I'd had a couple of other serious relationships that ended for one reason or another that boiled down to being incompatible when living together. I figure I saved myself a whole lot of heartache and a whole lot of money by doing things that way.
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
31,979
5,834
Visit site
✟867,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't care for the purity pledge concept. I waited because it was what the Lord indicated. And I don't think anyone who is not convinced in their own mind will wait when the temptation hits anyway, despite any pressured agreement.

Incidentally, the 20 percent in the survey that didn't have sex indicate that not everyone is doing it. And why would someone make a decision to do something because everyone is doing it in the first place? That sounds like lack of personal conviction for any decision.
 
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,615
3,254
✟274,922.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One thing we christians do is REALLLLLLLLY mess up when it comes to how we approach sex when it comes to the young.

First we drill it into them that sex before marriage is bad. Then we say anything sex related is bad. Then we drill into them that wanting to marry until sex is good and other wise its bad. I mean yes these are all good things to teach. But because we over do it, it screws up their heads. For the few that actually remain a virgin until they meet someone, they end up being overly "holy" about finding someone and see anyone who has had sex as some lower life form. And when these people marry they often freak out about sex in general they think anything they do it a sin sexually because no one ever bothered to teach them "Almost anything is open sexually between a husband and wife!".

So they end up with a boring, bland and sometimes frustrating sex life. Which is why I wish pastors did a sermon on the Song of Solomon. Yes it would probably shock the crowd, but it needs to be talked about so adults can grow up and get married and know more about sex than its just "Bad before marriage and disgusting and a sin!".

And for the ones that have had sex beforehand. At least most realize they made a mistake and therefore are more understanding of someone who they meet who may have also screwed up earlier in life. Granted even with these people they still freak out about having sex once married because they don't understand what is acceptable as a married couple. I actually met a couple who literally believed "missionary" (if you know what I mean) was the only way christians were allowed to have sex. Ugh.

Also pastors should teach one other very important thing about sex before marriage. Its NOT the same as once married. This is something I never knew. Sex before marriage feels good to some degree but you are racked with guilt at times, hurt, personal hate of what you did. It just feels like a "pleasure" thing. But once I had sex on my honeymoon... wow. It felt like it was blessed, like it felt better, like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. Like God say "You may have messed up before, but you will now understand why sex after you marry is important to wait on!".

Sounds stupid to some I talk to, they say sex is sex. But I disagree. And its why I URGE people don't waste your first time before marriage. You will regret it.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
One thing we christians do is REALLLLLLLLY mess up when it comes to how we approach sex when it comes to the young.
Amen and amen.
First we drill it into them that sex before marriage is bad. Then we say anything sex related is bad. Then we drill into them that wanting to marry until sex is good and other wise its bad. I mean yes these are all good things to teach. But because we over do it, it screws up their heads. For the few that actually remain a virgin until they meet someone, they end up being overly "holy" about finding someone and see anyone who has had sex as some lower life form. And when these people marry they often freak out about sex in general they think anything they do it a sin sexually
Screws up their heads and how.
no one ever bothered to teach them "Almost anything is open sexually between a husband and wife!".
Or, if they WERE taught that, it came afterward and was so buried under the other rubble that it seemed incongruous or irrelevant and was dismissed.

IMO we need to START with the "sex is good" foundation.
Which is why I wish pastors did a sermon on the Song of Solomon. Yes it would probably shock the crowd, but it needs to be talked about
LOL. There is a problem with that approach as well. I used to have my dad's set of commentaries (Benson's, London circa 1860) and in the preface to the Song, it said plainly that the book should ONLY be taken as symbolic of Christ and the Church. Any other interpretation, (including the basic sexual one) was unthinkable and inherently sinful. And then there is the issue of most pastors (even if they can read biblical Hebrew) not being familiar with ancient Hebraic poetic symbolism. So it would be kind of like the blind leading the blind on that one.

I remember when I started researching that out in the mid 1980s. When I found some stuff I showed my wife and she just shook her head. "If only those old ladies at church knew what was in their bibles ..."
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
But once I had sex on my honeymoon... wow. It felt like it was blessed, like it felt better, like a weight was lifted off my shoulders.
Yeah - that is not everyone's experience, or maybe even most. If your head is messed up bad enough, it may STILL feel like a curse. (even years or decades later)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hetta

I'll find my way home
Jun 21, 2012
16,925
4,875
the here and now
✟64,923.00
Country
France
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Interesting thread. Like the OP, I have adult kids, and like the OP I had worries about my kids getting into too much too soon, for which they weren't ready. Young men can get just as hurt as young women, and surely if virginity is important, then it should be just as important that the male be a virgin as the female. I rarely see that emphasis - it's typically all about the girl being "pure" (young men have to sow their oats you know). There's a risk of fetishising virginity, and that's very unhealthy.
 
Upvote 0

DZoolander

Persnickety Member
Apr 24, 2007
7,279
2,128
Far far away
✟112,634.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
from CNN: Why young Christians aren't waiting anymore – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

If unmarried Christians aren't waiting, which is the thrust of the article, why aren't they?

One female interviewed said that it seemed like everyone was doing it, so she did it too (had sex). Remembering my own teen years, it was exactly the same. Everyone thought that everyone else was doing it, or some said that they had done it - whether they had or not.

I have a 19yo son that I'm fairly convinced has had sex with his g/f. Unless he has incredible restraint, I don't see how he wouldn't. It's certainly not something I would seek to control, other than as I can when they are in our home, where our son knows he will not be openly sleeping with any girl, ever, unless she is his wife.

The question posed at the end of the article is:

I have to say - virginity of my children before marriage is not one of the issues I care much about. There's a whole world of concerns and issues about how to raise them to be good and productive members of society, and whether or not they're virgins when they marry is pretty farrrrrr down the list to me.

Now, I do have to say that in an ideal world, would I opt for that? Yeah, sure. But not so much because I think it reflects righteousness - but rather because I think that it opens a can of worms for young people that they might not necessarily be prepared for. A pressing goal of mine is to protect my children from hurt to the best of my ability - and misplaced/misunderstood feelings are likely to hurt them. But it's that aspect of it that concerns me - not the sex part itself.

I reasonably expect that the odds are that my kids won't be virgins when they marry. They'll likely meet people they like, they'll date, they'll fall in love, they'll have feelings...and they'll follow those feelings with physical actions. All in all - I accept that and I'm pretty ok with it - so long as it follows a decent timeline. Heck, I was no different. Why should I anticipate they'll be?

What's more important to me is that they UNDERSTAND the world, what they're doing, what they're walking into, etc...and make their judgements and decisions from a place of understanding and strength. Whatever should/will be shall follow from that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hetta
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That was amazing, Luther. I hope you don't mind if I screen shot your post to save for my kids.
I agree with Luther and would add that it is of PRIME importance that the kids have their OWN relationship with the Lord BEFORE puberty. It cannot rest on mom and dad's faith; they MUST have their own.

And also, inform them that abstaining the wrong way (like out of legalism or trying to turn off your desires) will, not may, but WILL negatively impact intimacy with your future spouse. The sex drive should be a friend, not an enemy.

If they get the sense of "oh no - I am getting aroused again," it is a sign the drive has become an enemy. That sense does not disappear when you say "I DO."
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
1. Gross. This girl wasn't even a glimmer in her dad's eye when I was out drinking my late teens away.

2. There's no way she couldn't have realized I'm far too old for her....even if she suspected I was single.

3. What the hell is wrong with girls these days? I didn't get that much attention from girls her age when I was her age. What in the world did her parents teach her about sex?

So the moral of this post is....teach your kids to be sexually responsible, before someone slightly less scrupulous than myself has sex with them.
I understand, but within my lifetime such a relationship was not unheard of. Some young ladies LIKE an older man. I know of 2 families where the father had been widowed and married a 2nd wife younger than some of his older children.

The fact that you are grossed out by that is entirely a cultural thing, and the culture has changed a LOT in the last 50-60 years.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums