Trinity discussion with St Worm2

[miknik5]

None, since we are not sinless like Yeshua. That was one aspect of him that made him the express image of the Father. He was not sinless because he was the Father.


Yeshua had been showing them the Father throughout his life by the way he lived. We are to show people Messiah by the life we live. I believe Paul came the closest to being Messiah-like, but that did not make him Yeshua.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.​

There were plenty of people that saw Yeshua prior to John 6 and yet, not one of them ever saw the Father. Yet you say Philip saw the Father because you misinterpret the verses in question.

HE was sinless...HOLY....because?

 

[miknik5]

Shall we go to the scriptures of HIS birth which explains this?

 

[miknik5]

None, since we are not sinless like Yeshua. That was one aspect of him that made him the express image of the Father. He was not sinless because he was the Father.


Yeshua had been showing them the Father throughout his life by the way he lived. We are to show people Messiah by the life we live. I believe Paul came the closest to being Messiah-like, but that did not make him Yeshua.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.​

There were plenty of people that saw Yeshua prior to John 6 and yet, not one of them ever saw the Father. Yet you say Philip saw the Father because you misinterpret the verses in question.

How did JESUS see THE FATHER?
Because that is who HE is referring to in the scriptures John 6:46 which you provided

JESUS further explains how...since HE is the bread of GOD which came down from heaven...

 

[gadar perets]

Shall we go to the scriptures of HIS birth which explains this?

Please do.

 

[gadar perets]

How did JESUS see THE FATHER?
Because that is who HE is referring to in the scriptures John 6:46 which you provided

JESUS further explains how...since HE is the bread of GOD which came down from heaven...

On the one hand you say "Jesus" saw the Father, but on the other hand you say "Jesus" IS the Father. Did he see the Father by looking in a mirror?

 

[miknik5]

Please do.

Luke 1 and Isaiah 7

 

[miknik5]

On the one hand you say "Jesus" saw the Father, but on the other hand you say "Jesus" IS the Father. Did he see the Father by looking in a mirror?

The SPIRIT of GOD was made manifest and the name given is JESUS who came in the flesh and dwelt amongst us to show us THE FATHER

"Father I have manifested your name to those whom you have given me out of the world and they have truly believed that I came out from you and that you sent me" (John 17)

 

[miknik5]

Yes. The Holy Spirit comes to us from the Father through the Son. That means the Son s NOT the Father, but receives from the Father to give to us.

Again, what do those verses have to do with Yeshua's definition of being one? John 14 might be relevant when misunderstood. When Philip was looking upon Yeshua, he was NOT seeing the Father since no man has ever seen the Father (God). He was seeing the character image/express image of the Father. An image is not the original. You can look at a very realistic painting of fruit, but it is only an image of the original fruit.

The promise of the FATHER which CHRIST discusses with HIS DISCIPLES in the upper room


Namely, CHRIST telling them that when THE COMFORTER comes, whom HE will send from the FATHER, HE will lead you to all truth

HE will take from ME and give to you

All That is THE FATHER's is MINE
This is why I say HE will take from what is mine and give to you

I will not leave you as orphans

I will come to you


(Can you explain this as well)

Yes. The Holy Spirit comes to us from the Father through the Son. That means the Son s NOT the Father, but receives from the Father to give to us.

This does not explain what I have asked

Further, please explain how through JESUS we have access to THE FATHER

BY ONE SPIRIT


What exactly is THE FATHER's that is THE SONS?

 

[miknik5]

Yes. The Holy Spirit comes to us from the Father through the Son. That means the Son s NOT the Father, but receives from the Father to give to us.

Does Jesus have a spirit separate from the FATHER?

 

[gadar perets]

Luke 1 and Isaiah 7

Merely quoting a chapter in which the virgin birth appears is not helpful. Please be clear in what you are trying to teach so we don't waste time clarifying.

 

[gadar perets]

The SPIRIT of GOD was made manifest and the name given is JESUS who came in the flesh and dwelt amongst us to show us THE FATHER

"Father I have manifested your name to those whom you have given me out of the world and they have truly believed that I came out from you and that you sent me" (John 17)

I still have no idea what you are trying to teach. Are you saying Yeshua is our Heavenly Father or that Yeshua has a Father that is a separate being/person from himself?

 

[miknik5]

Merely quoting a chapter in which the virgin birth appears is not helpful. Please be clear in what you are trying to teach so we don't waste time clarifying.

The virgin birth is not helpful?

because you don't believe it?

I'm not following how you need clarification

The virgin birth should be clearly understood

 

[miknik5]

How was HE declared HOLY
but according to THE SPIRIT of HOLINESS

 

[miknik5]

JESUS is risen yes?

If you do not believe that HE came forth from GOD, then what do you believe?

Are there two spirits in Heaven: the FATHER's and the SON's?

Or ONE SPIRIT

And as clearly written:

It is through Jesus that we have access to the FATHER

BY ONE SPIRIT


What HE takes from the FATHER and gives to us
ALL that is the Father's is HIS
Which is why HE can say, I will take from what is Mine and give to you

I will not leave you as orphans
I will come to you

(And yet HE also said...I will send you another Comforter who will be with you forever...even the Spirit of Truth)

(And as well he who loves ME my FATHER will love and WE will come and make our home with him)

So
Please explain.

 

[gadar perets]

This does not explain what I have asked

That is because you are not clear in what you are asking.

Further, please explain how through JESUS we have access to THE FATHER

BY ONE SPIRIT

We have access to the Father through Yeshua's flesh (Hebrews 10:20). The Holy Spirit is one of the ways through which we learn what the Father's will is and it is what empowers us to do His will.

What exactly is THE FATHER's that is THE SONS?

The Father has given all things to the Son (Matthew 11:27; John 3:35).

 

[gadar perets]

How was HE declared HOLY
but according to THE SPIRIT of HOLINESS

He is holy because his Father declared him holy in Luke 1:35.

 

[gadar perets]

JESUS is risen yes?

Of course.

If you do not believe that HE came forth from GOD, then what do you believe?

Yes, he came forth from God. That does not mean he existed as a living being in heaven prior to his birth. He existed in the mind of YHWH and came forth through the Father miraculously speaking him into existence.

Are there two spirits in Heaven: the FATHER's and the SON's?

Or ONE SPIRIT

And as clearly written:

It is through Jesus that we have access to the FATHER

BY ONE SPIRIT

The Father is Spirit. The Son has his own Spirit as well as the Father's indwelling Holy Spirit. That's three. Then there are the "seven spirits of God". That makes ten.

What HE takes from the FATHER and gives to us
ALL that is the Father's is HIS
Which is why HE can say, I will take from what is Mine and give to you

I will not leave you as orphans
I will come to you

(And yet HE also said...I will send you another Comforter who will be with you forever...even the Spirit of Truth)

(And as well he who loves ME my FATHER will love and WE will come and make our home with him)

So
Please explain.

You explained it well. I agree.

 

[gadar perets]

The virgin birth is not helpful?

because you don't believe it?

I'm not following how you need clarification

The virgin birth should be clearly understood

I believe in the virgin birth. I don't understand why you are bringing that up. What does that have to do with whether or not Yeshua is the Father?

 

[miknik5]

Of course.


Yes, he came forth from God. That does not mean he existed as a living being in heaven prior to his birth. He existed in the mind of YHWH and came forth through the Father miraculously speaking him into existence.


The Father is Spirit. The Son has his own Spirit as well as the Father's indwelling Holy Spirit. That's three. Then there are the "seven spirits of God". That makes ten.



You explained it well. I agree.

Gadar,

We don't agree

The Rock with seven eyes on it is not really a rock and it's not really eyes



I'm sorry we do not agree
There is only
ONE HOLY SPIRIT

 

[gadar perets]

Gadar,

We don't agree

The Rock with seven eyes on it is not really a rock and it's not really eyes



I'm sorry we do not agree
There is only
ONE HOLY SPIRIT

You did not ask me how many "Holy Spirits" there are. You said, "Are there two spirits in Heaven: the FATHER's and the SON's?"

And I was not referring to a rock with seven eyes, but to the "seven Spirits of God" in Revelation 3:1 and 4:5.