Trinity and Hypostatic Union VS LOGIC

[dóxatotheó]

LAW OF NON CONTRADICTION​

Which states, that contradictory propositions cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense.

Does Christians Trinity Violates It​

The Orthodox view in Christianity is that the Father is God, The Son is God, And the Holy Spirit is God. On the surface this looks like a Logical Contradiction but that is not the Case I will show you what I mean.
God = the Father
God = the Son
God = the Holy Spirit
The Father ≠ the Son
The Father ≠ the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit ≠ the Son
We don't view God as by the persons in the Trinity but rather by the Godhead is why God can be 3 in Unity in a Godhead because God's fundamental realities(hypostasis) are all one in the Godhead ad intra. God is a being with 1 mind who thinks himself in existence Ad intra, which means he begotted his perfected image in the essence not outside it. When we reference the Holy Spirit we state that his power and love is out-poured on creation, which shows the ontological dependence they have for one-another in the Godhead. The Son is the image, The Father is the Thinker, The Holy Spirit is the Love and Power of God out-poured on Creation these 3 isn't 3 outside one but 3 of 1. That keeps the Law of Non-contradiction consistent with this because we refer to God as a trinity not a person.

Does Christian Hypostatic Union Violates it​

I constantly get in heated discussions concerning this with Muslims, they believe God logically can't be Man and God because God is outside eternity and Men is inside eternity. On the contrary, when we bring up the Hypostatic Union, we understand that God is eternal and we are not but; we do not in any circumstance state Jesus couldn't be Man and God logically. I purpose an explanation that Jesus can be both Man and God if he was omnipresent and was composite in the Unity with God and Man. I presume Christ who is omnipresent never was confounded in eternity, when he came to Earth but rather, he was composite in the sense he had two natures. Christ divine nature wasn't composite and unlimited while, his human nature was Christ being composite keeps the Hypostatic Union consistent with the law of non-contradiction an example would be,Wave–particle duality which is a concept in particle physics that ascribes two seemingly contradictory traits to a single object. Similarly, the same with the Hypostatic Union. This is how the Hypostatic Union stays Logical God bless.

Law of Identity​

Everything is the same as itself; or a statement cannot not remain the same and change its truth
value.

Does the Trinity Contradict it​

According to Muslim scholars, and Unitarians the Trinity breaks the law of identity I would like to answer that by saying we believe God is collectively the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit.
God is so conceptualized, is three (or that the three persons, so conceptualized, are one). The divine portion of reality can be conceptualized as three persons, and as one person, but not, onto-logically speaking, as four persons because the three persons together are the “fourth” person. we must be think of the same divine portion of reality, when we are in regards to the Godhead always. This is consistent to the Law of Identity because numerical predication's in the sense of reality can always come consistent to a singular predication when we explain it in regards to reality. So yes Identities can come in numerical form if it's in regards to a collective of persons in a singularity of essence.
God = the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit
The Father ≠ the Son
The Father ≠ the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit ≠ the Son



Took me a while to write this God bless

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You can really only believe the Trinity and Hypostatic union if you experience their parable after being born again.

Once it becomes part of your experience, then it is logical - otherwise, not.

 

[dóxatotheó]

You can really only believe the Trinity and Hypostatic union if you experience their parable after being born again.

Once it becomes part of your experience, then it is logical - otherwise, not.

I just explained how the trinity and hypostatic union are both logical.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I just explained how the trinity and hypostatic union are both logical.

Apologies, when I read your posts about them, I get the impression you're saying the opposite of that.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

@dóxatotheó: I appreciate you efforts to restate and defend the 6th century 'Athanasian' creed, with its visual representation in the 'Shield of Faith' (Shield of the Trinity - Wikipedia), but it doesn't take away the contradictions IMHO. Just some points of thought (and I say that while considering myself to be fully devoted Christian):

The original Nicene creed (325) clearly states and starts with that 'there is one God; the Father'. Now the 6th century so-called 'Athanasian' creed changes that to something along the lines of 'there is one God(head); Father, Son and Holy Spirit'. That is quite a change. Not many Christians are aware of that theological shift and the inconsistencies it brings.

It makes no sense in the 21st century to speak of the three persons in the Trinity while clearly God the Father and the Holy Spirit are not persons (= humans in the modern sense). One could say three 'beings' but the term 'persons' make no sense at all in this day and age when it's not about humans.

The first person who used the term 'Trinity'/'Trinitas' (Latin) was Tertullian (about 155 CE – 220 CE), but his views do not align with the 6th century 'Athanasian' creed.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Water, Steam, Ice, one element existing in three states with three distinct sets of attributes and characteristics. Is liquid water, water,? yes. Is ice water? Yes. Is steam water? Yes. Yes, there are some issues with the example, but the different characteristics of the same element help to understand the basic concept. God the Father is God, God the Son is God, who emptied Himself of all of His Godly attributes, "retaining nothing" and did all of His works through the power of the Holy Spirit, also God. One God, One element, (3) different roles

​

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Water, Steam, Ice, one element existing in three states with three distinct sets of attributes and characteristics. Is liquid water, water,? yes. Is ice water? Yes. Is steam water? Yes. Yes, there are some issues with the example, but the different characteristics of the same element help to understand the basic concept. God the Father is God, God the Son is God, who emptied Himself of all of His Godly attributes, "retaining nothing" and did all of His works through the power of the Holy Spirit, also God. One God, One element, (3) different roles

The way you describe Father, Son and Spirit as different roles from the same God is a view that in church history was labbelled as Modalism or Sabellianism (Sabellianism - Wikipedia) The water/ice/steam analogy is used a lot - even the famous Muslim convert Nabeel Qurehsi (Nabeel Qureshi (author) - Wikipedia) uses it to enhance his understanding of the Trinity dogma, but it still is disguised Modalism/Sabellianism.

Both God the Father and Jesus as Son are god (and maybe even from the same substance), but not in the same way. As Jesus, Paul and even the Nicene Creed (325) clearly state that the one God is the Father (= not Jesus). Yet Jesus is god of god, light of light, etc. Jesus also is sub-ordinate to God the Father; he is the one who begets, sends, commands, etc. Jesus does the will of God the Father in everything. And the goal of everything is to reconcile the world with the God the Father, so He is the goal, Jesus is the means. As Hebrews says: Jesus is the High Priest who intercedes for us (Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 9:24).

 

[EmethAlethia]

So, ReluctantTheologian you believe there are many Gods? God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, not just one God, but three?