Transparency

[Treeplanter]

To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon a human being is evil and immoral

Every human being on the face of the earth, minus the odd sociopath, adheres, with allowances for minor deviation in language, to this same standard

The God of the bible, unfortunately, does NOT adhere to this standard!

Example:

God chose to consciously and purposefully drown innocent babies, alongside the wicked, during the Great Flood

{i.e. God NEEDLESSLY inflicted harm upon those babies!!}

That said, I'm perfectly willing to accept that God might have had a morally valid reason for consciously and purposefully inflicting the harm of drowning upon those innocent babies

In other words, I'm perfectly willing to accept that the drowning of those babies was, after all, not even needless to begin with...

Assuming this is true - assuming that God NEEDED, after all, to drown those babies - my question is this:

Doesn't He {God} owe it to us to offer His explanation for having inflicted what seemingly appears {to us} to be a NEEDLESS harm?

Isn't this just common sense?

If you love someone and you truly desire for this someone to fully trust in and love you in return - don't you present yourself with full transparency?

Don't you at least make an effort?

 

[BeyondET]

Well He is the only One who can fix it, like it never happened.

 

[Treeplanter]

Well He is the only One who can fix it, like it never happened.

Yes, if God is God then He absolutely can fix it - what, though, of being responsible for a situation that needs fixing in the 1st place?

 

[topher694]

So God owes us something does He?

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, if God is God then He absolutely can fix it - what, though, of being responsible for a situation that needs fixing in the 1st place?

He gave life to man a soul free to be human.

 

[Treeplanter]

So God owes us something does He?

If He wants to be regarded as good and just and loving -yes, He most certainly does owe us something!

 

[BeyondET]

And all that will not end like the babies in the flood, wheat and weeds

 

[topher694]

If He wants to be regarded as good and just and loving -yes, He most certainly does owe us something!

Lol, think about what you are saying. The all knowing, all powerful creator of the universe is obligated to give you what you want to justify His reputation in your eyes. Where else should He be consulting you on the creation and running of the universe? I'm sure He'd appreciate the help... after all it worked out well for Bruce.

 

[Treeplanter]

He gave life to man a soul free to be human.

Great, but you're not addressing the OP

God consciously and purposefully inflicted needless harm upon man

To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon man, by man's standard, is evil and immoral

Why wouldn't God make it clear to us why He does what He does and why it isn't evil and immoral for Him to consciously and purposefully inflict harm?

 

[topher694]

Great, but you're not addressing the OP

God consciously and purposefully inflicted needless harm upon man

To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon man, by man's standard, is evil and immoral

Why wouldn't God make it clear to us why He does what He does and why it isn't evil and immoral for Him to consciously and purposefully inflict harm?

Whose said it was needless? Him, or you?

 

[Treeplanter]

Lol, think about what you are saying. The all knowing, all powerful creator of the universe is obligated to give you what you want to justify His reputation in your eyes. Where else should He be consulting you on the creation and running of the universe? I'm sure He'd appreciate the help... after all it worked out well for Bruce.

Yes - OBLIGATED!

If God wants my devotion then He is 100% obligated to prove Himself worthy of it by virtue of the love and justice that He demonstrates

 

[BeyondET]

Great, but you're not addressing the OP

God consciously and purposefully inflicted needless harm upon man

To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon man, by man's standard, is evil and immoral

Why wouldn't God make it clear to us why He does what He does and why it isn't evil and immoral for Him to consciously and purposefully inflict harm?

Mans standard is once you inflict death upon another, man cannot fix it, the babies do not remember a moment of it. but the wicked do

 

[topher694]

Yes - OBLIGATED!

If God wants my devotion then He is 100% obligated to prove Himself worthy of it by virtue of the love and justice that He demonstrates

I see. What if you are not capable of understanding this proof?

 

[Treeplanter]

Whose said it was needless? Him, or you?

To have drowned innocent babies alongside the wicked gives every appearance of needlessness...

God could have saved and resurrected these babies from a fallen world by an infinite number of means - instead, He chose to do so by inflicting the terror and pain of drowning upon them

 

[BeyondET]

Yes - OBLIGATED!

If God wants my devotion then He is 100% obligated to prove Himself worthy of it by virtue of the love and justice that He demonstrates

Are not relationships built upon mutual obligations

 

[Treeplanter]

I see. What if you are not capable of understanding this proof?

A god worthy of love and devotion is a god who makes capable of love and devotion those from whom it seeks love and devotion

 

[topher694]

A god worthy of love and devotion is a god who makes capable of love and devotion those from whom it seeks love and devotion

I see, so He must make you capable of understanding it then...

Well since God is an infinite being and you and I are not there are only 2 ways for God to accomplish this:

1) Make you more like Himself
Or
2) Make Himself more like you

Guess what! God already did one of those and the devil already tried the other... look what camp your hanging out in.

 

[topher694]

.

 

[Treeplanter]

Are not relationships built upon mutual obligations

CERTAINLY!

And the obligation in question includes, among other things, mutual transparency

I wouldn't expect you to accept and reciprocate my affections while I am harming you just because I repeat a "just trust me - it's for your own good" mantra

 

[Treeplanter]

I see, so He must make you capable of understanding it then...

Well since God is an infinite being and you and I are not there are only 2 ways for God to accomplish this:

1) Make you more like Himself
Or
2) Make Himself more like you

Guess what! God already did one of those and the devil already tried the other... look what camp your hanging out in.

Yes!

If God wants to be trusted then it is incumbent upon Himself to demonstrate Himself trustworthy

Thus far, He has not...

PS
I thought God had already made us in His image?

Is God really so weak and ineffectual, in your view, that He is incapable of effectively communicating to us that His every action is for our own good even when it appears that He is needlessly harming us??