Translations of Matthew 24:16

Christodoulos

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While on earth, did Jesus do those things all on His own, with His own power, or was it the Father and/or Holy Spirit working through Him?

Jesus, while one earth was the God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man, two "natures", yet one "Person". He IS always Almighty God, "Who always existing in the very nature of God, did not consider His equality with God, something that was not rightly His, be humbled Himself by taking upon Himself the very nature of Man..." (Philippians 2:6-7). Everything that Jesus did would have been with the Father and Holy Spirit, as "the Three are One", and would always work together. Hence Jesus says, "So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise" (John 5:19). And "Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works" (John 14:10)
 
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Jesus, while one earth was the God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man, two "natures", yet one "Person". He IS always Almighty God, "Who always existing in the very nature of God, did not consider His equality with God, something that was not rightly His, be humbled Himself by taking upon Himself the very nature of Man..." (Philippians 2:6-7).
And, to be clear, I still have never claimed Jesus stopped being God.

Everything that Jesus did would have been with the Father and Holy Spirit, as "the Three are One", and would always work together. Hence Jesus says, "So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise" (John 5:19). And "Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works" (John 14:10)
Note that last sentence - "the Father who dwells in me and does his works."

Who is doing the works?
 
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Christodoulos

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And, to be clear, I still have never claimed Jesus stopped being God.


Note that last sentence - "the Father who dwells in me and does his works."

Who is doing the works?

You language at the start of this discussion is open to the interpretation that Jesus "laid aside His Deity", rather than the His "equality" with the Father. Yes, the Father is doing His works, as the Three Persons in the Trinity never work independent of each other. Jesus raised Himself from the dead, and so did the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus can tell Philip, "he that has see Me, has seen the Father", not that They are the same Person, but, because They are "one in essence". You cannot get from the words, "the Father who dwells in me and does his works.", any "subordinationism" within the Godhead of Jesus to the Father, or the Holy Spirit to Jesus and the Father. This is not Biblical.
 
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You language at the start of this discussion is open to the interpretation that Jesus "laid aside His Deity", rather than the His "equality" with the Father.
And I've clarified it a couple times now, haven't I.

Yes, the Father is doing His works, as the Three Persons in the Trinity never work independent of each other. Jesus raised Himself from the dead, and so did the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus can tell Philip, "he that has see Me, has seen the Father", not that They are the same Person, but, because They are "one in essence". You cannot get from the words, "the Father who dwells in me and does his works.", any "subordinationism" within the Godhead of Jesus to the Father, or the Holy Spirit to Jesus and the Father. This is not Biblical.
No subordinationism? Jesus was obviously subordinate to the Father.

The fact alone that they are referred to as "the Son" and "the Father" shows subordinationism. Who has the superior position in the family? Fathers or sons?

Look at Philippians 2 again - Jesus was "obedient to the point of death." Obedient to whom?

Just before His death - "NOT MY will be done, but yours." Jesus showed that His will was subordinate to the Father's will.

Jesus even called the Father "my God" - John 20:17.

Here's a brief article about it:
How can there be subordination / hierarchy in the Trinity?
 
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Christodoulos

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And I've clarified it a couple times now, haven't I.


No subordinationism? Jesus was obviously subordinate to the Father.

The fact alone that they are referred to as "the Son" and "the Father" shows subordinationism. Who has the superior position in the family? Fathers or sons?

Look at Philippians 2 again - Jesus was "obedient to the point of death." Obedient to whom?

Just before His death - "NOT MY will be done, but yours." Jesus showed that His will was subordinate to the Father's will.

Jesus even called the Father "my God" - John 20:17.

Here's a brief article about it:
How can there be subordination / hierarchy in the Trinity?

Jesus' "subordination" to the Father was only while He was on earth. Hebrews 2:9 tells us that Jesus was "for a little while made lower than the angels". because He took upon Himself "human nature", and died on the cross. You cannot use the human family relationships to understand the Godhead, and the relations between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If, as you say, that Jesus is "subordinate" to the Father within the Godhead, then we have the problem of Jesus being "inferior" to the Father as God, and therefore not "coequal" with Him. This means that we have the Father as "God", and then Jesus Christ as "a secondary god", or "God" in a lesser sense of the word. What about the Holy Spirit?

You say that Jesus called the Father "My God", and so He did. But, in Hebrews 1:8, we have the Father addressing the Son, where He says, "Your throne, O God...". Then a few verses later, 10-12, again the Father is the speaker, and He says to Jesus that He was the AUTHOR of the whole of Creation! The quote in Hebrews is from Psalm 102:25-27, where the words are used for Almighty God. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul says, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." Where the Lord Jesus comes FIRST, and then the Father, something impossible if Jesus were not COEQUAL to both the Father and Holy Spirit. In Ephesians 6:4-6, we read: "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Where the Holy Spirit is first, Jesus Christ second, and the Father third! Again, an impossibility if either or both Jesus and the Holy Spirit were "inferior" to God the Father, as touching their Deity. In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is called "the Mighty God", and in 10:21, the Father is also called "the Mighty God". In Acts 5:3-4, the Holy Spirit is called "God". The Name that Almighty God gave to Moses at the burning bush (which was the Lord Jesus Christ), is "Yahweh", which is "the eternal, self-existent One". and the Great "I am". Jesus Himself says that "before Abraham came into existence, I AM" (John 8:58, so the Greek). In verse 59 we read that the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus. Why? because they considered His words as blasphemy, in claiming the Eternal Name of Almighty God, for Himself! In John 5:23, Jesus says, "that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him", where in the Greek, "just as", means "in exactly the same way", which would not have been possible if Jesus were "subordinate" to the Father.
 
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You cannot use the human family relationships to understand the Godhead, and the relations between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Of course you can. That's why God Himself gave us the terms "Father" and "Son" among persons of the Trinity. They are anthropomorphisms, putting the relationships in human terms for our understanding.

If, as you say, that Jesus is "subordinate" to the Father within the Godhead, then we have the problem of Jesus being "inferior" to the Father as God, and therefore not "coequal" with Him. This means that we have the Father as "God", and then Jesus Christ as "a secondary god", or "God" in a lesser sense of the word. What about the Holy Spirit?
No, it doesn't make them "lesser gods". You either didn't bother to read that article, or you didn't understand it at all.

You say that Jesus called the Father "My God", and so He did. But, in Hebrews 1:8, we have the Father addressing the Son, where He says, "Your throne, O God...".
There's a difference between "God" and "my God." Notice the Father NEVER calls the son "my God".

Then a few verses later, 10-12, again the Father is the speaker, and He says to Jesus that He was the AUTHOR of the whole of Creation! The quote in Hebrews is from Psalm 102:25-27, where the words are used for Almighty God. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul says, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." Where the Lord Jesus comes FIRST, and then the Father, something impossible if Jesus were not COEQUAL to both the Father and Holy Spirit. In Ephesians 6:4-6, we read: "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Where the Holy Spirit is first, Jesus Christ second, and the Father third! Again, an impossibility if either or both Jesus and the Holy Spirit were "inferior" to God the Father, as touching their Deity. In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is called "the Mighty God", and in 10:21, the Father is also called "the Mighty God". In Acts 5:3-4, the Holy Spirit is called "God". The Name that Almighty God gave to Moses at the burning bush (which was the Lord Jesus Christ), is "Yahweh", which is "the eternal, self-existent One". and the Great "I am". Jesus Himself says that "before Abraham came into existence, I AM" (John 8:58, so the Greek). In verse 59 we read that the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus. Why? because they considered His words as blasphemy, in claiming the Eternal Name of Almighty God, for Himself! In John 5:23, Jesus says, "that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him", where in the Greek, "just as", means "in exactly the same way", which would not have been possible if Jesus were "subordinate" to the Father.
You are confusing different positions with different natures. Jesus having a lower position does NOT mean He has a lower nature.

The boss at work has a higher position than the other employees. Does that mean the employees are less human? Of course not. In the same way, Jesus having a lower position than the Father does not mean He is less God than the Father.
 
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Christodoulos

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Of course you can. That's why God Himself gave us the terms "Father" and "Son" among persons of the Trinity. They are anthropomorphisms, putting the relationships in human terms for our understanding.


No, it doesn't make them "lesser gods". You either didn't bother to read that article, or you didn't understand it at all.


There's a difference between "God" and "my God." Notice the Father NEVER calls the son "my God".


You are confusing different positions with different natures. Jesus having a lower position does NOT mean He has a lower nature.

The boss at work has a higher position than the other employees. Does that mean the employees are less human? Of course not. In the same way, Jesus having a lower position than the Father does not mean He is less God than the Father.

so what is the difference between "God" and "my God"?

In human family relations the son can become much better than the father, as he could end up becoming the leader of a country, or director of a company. In which case the son would be far "superior" to the father. The father could also work directly to the son in a much lower job. This understanding has nothing to do with the Godhead. There is no 1st 2nd and 3rd as in "order" in the Godhead. There is not a shred of evidence for this in the Bible. The Three Persons are coequal, coessential and coeternal. During the Incarnation Jesus was "subject" to the Father, but not before of after. Read what He tells the Father:

"And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." (John 17:5)

Here Jesus as the Son, says that from all eternity He had EQUAL "glory" with the Father, which He "put aside" while on earth, and now will return to it after His Ascension.
 
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so what is the difference between "God" and "my God"?

In human family relations the son can become much better than the father, as he could end up becoming the leader of a country, or director of a company. In which case the son would be far "superior" to the father. The father could also work directly to the son in a much lower job. This understanding has nothing to do with the Godhead. There is no 1st 2nd and 3rd as in "order" in the Godhead. There is not a shred of evidence for this in the Bible. The Three Persons are coequal, coessential and coeternal. During the Incarnation Jesus was "subject" to the Father, but not before of after. Read what He tells the Father:

"And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." (John 17:5)

Here Jesus as the Son, says that from all eternity He had EQUAL "glory" with the Father, which He "put aside" while on earth, and now will return to it after His Ascension.

I don't agree with your reasoning, or your cultural bias.

If a son is the leader of a country or director of a company, that does not make him superior to his father. Why do you think that Jesus took on the role of a servant and encouraged his disciples to do so also? There are quite a few examples in scripture of falsely giving honor to the wealthy and powerful while neglecting the poor.

In the Bible, the son is never superior to or equal to the father. Jesus was God's "secretary of state", carrying out his assigned task with the full authority of his father, but nowhere does he say that he is equal to the father. If he shares the glory of the father, that does not make him an equal. He was, is, and always will be obedient to his father. A perfect example is Hebrews 5:8, "Although he was a son, he learned obedience through the things he suffered."

If we Christians are in Christ, does that make us equal to God? Obviously not! We are his adopted children, and will never be equal to God. Nobody, including his son Jesus Christ, will ever be equal to God the Father.
 
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Christodoulos

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I don't agree with your reasoning, or your cultural bias.

If a son is the leader of a country or director of a company, that does not make him superior to his father. Why do you think that Jesus took on the role of a servant and encouraged his disciples to do so also? There are quite a few examples in scripture of falsely giving honor to the wealthy and powerful while neglecting the poor.

In the Bible, the son is never superior to or equal to the father. Jesus was God's "secretary of state", carrying out his assigned task with the full authority of his father, but nowhere does he say that he is equal to the father. If he shares the glory of the father, that does not make him an equal. He was, is, and always will be obedient to his father. A perfect example is Hebrews 5:8, "Although he was a son, he learned obedience through the things he suffered."

If we Christians are in Christ, does that make us equal to God? Obviously not! We are his adopted children, and will never be equal to God. Nobody, including his son Jesus Christ, will ever be equal to God the Father.

My example from our human relations has nothing to do with the Godhead. I was merely showing the absurdity of assuming that applying human relations to the Trinity. Sure the son could be "superior" to his father if he were in a greater position to his father, especially if his father were himself working under his authority.

There is not ONE example that can be given, that will show that within the Godhead, as Deity, that the Father is in any way "greater" than Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit. This is an impossibility for the Persons in the Holy Trinity. Forget human logic and reasoning, as this cannot be applied to God. Who said to "share" something makes one person more than the other? This is equality.
 
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My example from our human relations has nothing to do with the Godhead. I was merely showing the absurdity of assuming that applying human relations to the Trinity. Sure the son could be "superior" to his father if he were in a greater position to his father, especially if his father were himself working under his authority.

There is not ONE example that can be given, that will show that within the Godhead, as Deity, that the Father is in any way "greater" than Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit. This is an impossibility for the Persons in the Holy Trinity. Forget human logic and reasoning, as this cannot be applied to God. Who said to "share" something makes one person more than the other? This is equality.

Okay, I'll forget human logic and reasoning. (Say what??) :tutu:

I believe what the bible clearly says: the father is superior to the son. Since Jesus is working under God's authority there is nothing more to discuss.
 
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Christodoulos

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Okay, I'll forget human logic and reasoning. (Say what??) :tutu:

I believe what the bible clearly says: the father is superior to the son. Since Jesus is working under God's authority there is nothing more to discuss.

Interesting that in all your arguments you can only provide ONE Bible text for what you say, Hebrews 5:8, which you have misunderstood and misused. Read all my posts here and you will see evidence from the Bible showing that the Father is NOT greater than Jesus within the Godhead. Bring Bible facts and forget human reasoning!
 
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Interesting that in all your arguments you can only provide ONE Bible text for what you say, Hebrews 5:8, which you have misunderstood and misused. Read all my posts here and you will see evidence from the Bible showing that the Father is NOT greater than Jesus within the Godhead. Bring Bible facts and forget human reasoning!

So I provide only one verse. So what?

Here is another verse, "So Jesus answered them, “I tell you the solemn truth, the Son can do nothing on his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing."

And another, "Furthermore, the Father does not judge anyone, but has assigned all judgment to the Son."

And more, "For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he has granted the Son to have life in himself and he has granted the Son authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man."

And finally, "those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." By your logic, we are all equal to God.

There is never anywhere in the Bible where the son is even equal to his father. It goes beyond human reason, particularly if you have even a basic understanding of the cultures of biblical times.

I will never forego human reasoning. I'll leave that to you.
 
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Christodoulos

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So I provide only one verse. So what?

Here is another verse, "So Jesus answered them, “I tell you the solemn truth, the Son can do nothing on his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing."

And another, "Furthermore, the Father does not judge anyone, but has assigned all judgment to the Son."

And more, "For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he has granted the Son to have life in himself and he has granted the Son authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man."

And finally, "those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." By your logic, we are all equal to God.

There is never anywhere in the Bible where the son is even equal to his father. It goes beyond human reason, particularly if you have even a basic understanding of the cultures of biblical times.

I will never forego human reasoning. I'll leave that to you.

You say there is nowhere in the Bible where Jesus Christ is equal to the Father? Well, here is just one passage that proves beyond any doubt to the honest person, EXACTLY that!

"And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped." (Revelation 5:13-14)

Here we have the whole of creation, "Every created thing", ascribe "To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb", ALL BLESSING and ALL HONOR, and ALL GLORY and ALL MIGHT, and then WORSHIP!!! In the Greek text, the Greek article "THE" is used repetitively, to show, "whatever BLESSING and HONOR and GLORY and MIGHT", there is in the world, ALL, belongs to the Father AND the Son EQUALLY. And then they are WORSHIPED TOGETHER! Let me explain this again for you. WHATEVER is here true of the Father, and true also of the Son, EQUALLY. There is no way that you can make any distinction.

Listen to the Words of Jesus Christ Himself.

"so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:23)

The Greek word, "καθώς" (even as), has the meaning, "according as, just as, even as: in the first member of a comparison". Then we have the Greek "τιμάω" (honor), which means, "to have in honor, to revere, venerate", "to treat with honor, regard, esteem". The word is also used for "exalt, glorify" (so from Homer's time in the Greek usage). Yet in Isaiah 42:8, Yahweh says: "I am the LORD! That is my name! I will not share my glory with anyone else, or the praise due me with idols.". Jesus, knowing this, says, if you do not "HONOR", and "GLORIFY" Me, then you cannot the Father. If, Jesus were a created being, as some blaspheme, or in any way inferior to the Father, and not His complete EQUAL, then these words that Jesus spoke would have been blasphemy! He says very clearly in this verse, that ALL WILL HONOR, that is the WHOLE of creation!

God the Father tells ALL of His angels, to WORSHIP the Lord Jesus Christ, something that is ONLY for Almighty God, as Jesus says in Matthew 4:10, "it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only". Look at Hebrews 1:6, "And again, when He brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”. ONLY if Jesus were Himself EQUAL to the Father, could these words have been uttered!

Matthew 28:19 shows that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 100% EQUAL, as they are EQUALLY YAHWEH.

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptise them into the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit".

Note, Jesus says, "to onoma", "The Name", that is "One Name", and not "ta onomata", the plural, "The Names", "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit". What, then is "The Name", that Jesus says, belongs to Himself, and the Father and Holy Spirit? We read in Exodus chapter 3, where Moses asks Almighty God for His "Name". To which God replies, "Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh", which is best rendered into English as, "I am that I am" (ver.14). The Greek version of the Old Testament (The Septuagint), which was done some 150 years before the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, has it, "ego eimi ho on", "I am the Eternal One". The Name of God, “Yahweh” in the Hebrew is, “the one bringing into life, life-giver, giver of existence, creator, the one who is, i.e., the absolute unchangeable one, the existing, ever living” (F Brown, S R Driver and C A Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon, p.218) When God tells Moses that “I am has sent you” (verse 14), He is giving His Name, “Yahweh” as the “Eternal, Self-existing, All-powerful, Creator God”, as He said in Isaiah, “I am Yahweh, that is My Name” (42:8). The Name which Jesus speaks of in Matthew 28:19, no doubt is "Yahweh".

It should also be noted, that, even though Jesus says "Name", (singular), the Greek text that follows is also very important: "tou Patros kai tou Huiou kai tou Hagiou Pneumatos", where the Greek "article" (tou), is repeated, to show that a "distinction" of Persons is meant. Yet, as YAHWEH they have ONE NAME. It is impossible for any created being to have the same “Name” of Almighty God. No one doubts that the Father is God, and therefore “eternal and uncreated” (Yahweh). The fact that here we have both Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, Two distinct Persons, together with the Father, where They have the SAME NAME of ALMIGHTY GOD, can only teach us that the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is Biblical, and not an invention of the early Church.

They that have ears, let them HEAR!
 
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so what is the difference between "God" and "my God"?
"My God" shows subordination, whereas simply "God" does not.

In human family relations the son can become much better than the father,....
A son having a better job has NO bearing on the position IN THE FAMILY. In the family itself, the father has authority over the children. Does the Bible ever say anything about children honoring and obeying their parents? Does it ever say anything about parents obeying their children?

This understanding has nothing to do with the Godhead. There is no 1st 2nd and 3rd as in "order" in the Godhead. There is not a shred of evidence for this in the Bible.
Except for all the evidence already given.

The Three Persons are coequal, coessential and coeternal.
You still seem intent on confusing nature and position.

Read what He tells the Father:
"And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." (John 17:5)
Having glory isn't the quality in question.

Here Jesus as the Son, says that from all eternity He had EQUAL "glory" with the Father, which He "put aside" while on earth, and now will return to it after His Ascension.
The word "equal" isn't anywhere in the verse you cited.
 
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"My God" shows subordination, whereas simply "God" does not.


A son having a better job has NO bearing on the position IN THE FAMILY. In the family itself, the father has authority over the children. Does the Bible ever say anything about children honoring and obeying their parents? Does it ever say anything about parents obeying their children?


Except for all the evidence already given.


You still seem intent on confusing nature and position.


Having glory isn't the quality in question.


The word "equal" isn't anywhere in the verse you cited.

"My God" shows subordination, whereas simply "God" does not.

And what is your authority for this distinction? The former has the personal pronoun, the latter, does not. In the Greek, John 20:28 is, "ὁ θεός μου", and Hebrews 1:8, "ὁ θεός", in both cases we have the use of the definite article in the Greek, "ὁ", which means, "THE God", which is used for both the Father and Jesus Christ in the SAME sense. Both COEQUALLY God.
 
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And what is your authority for this distinction?
Reading comprehension.

The former has the personal pronoun, the latter, does not. In the Greek, John 20:28 is, "ὁ θεός μου", and Hebrews 1:8, "ὁ θεός", in both cases we have the use of the definite article in the Greek, "ὁ", which means, "THE God", which is used for both the Father and Jesus Christ in the SAME sense. Both COEQUALLY God.
And that personal pronoun is what makes the difference.

This is what you're attempting:
  • Phrase 1: "my God"
  • Phrase 2: "God"
  • Now lets just throw out the "my" in the first one. See, they both say "God"; therefore, they're the same.
You can't make them equivalent by simply throwing out half of the first phrase.
 
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-V-

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This whole thing started because you objected to the idea of Jesus not having access to His omnipotence/omniscience while on earth. I showed that while on earth Jesus was subordinate to the Father, which you at first objected to.

Now, however, you admit that Jesus was subordinate during His earthly ministry.

Now you're going on about Jesus' status before or after His ministry - which is completely irrelevant to Jesus accessing His divine powers DURING His ministry.
 
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Christodoulos

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Reading comprehension.


And that personal pronoun is what makes the difference.

This is what you're attempting:
  • Phrase 1: "my God"
  • Phrase 2: "God"
  • Now lets just throw out the "my" in the first one. See, they both say "God"; therefore, they're the same.
You can't make them equivalent by simply throwing out half of the first phrase.

Can I ask you a very simple question? Do you know any Greek? Because if you did, you should know that the use of the personal pronoun makes NO difference to the actual meaning of "ὁ θεός". It is the definite article, "ὁ", which sometimes can be used, when omitted, to give a "secondary" meaning, but even then, the context must be used. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, ALL have "ὁ θεός" used for them, in EXACTLY the same sense and force of the word. Only your personal "theology" will make a difference between them. Les please deal with FACTS and not personal bias.
 
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-V-

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Can I ask you a very simple question? Do you know any Greek? Because if you did, you should know that the use of the personal pronoun makes NO difference to the actual meaning of "ὁ θεός". It is the definite article, "ὁ", which sometimes can be used, when omitted, to give a "secondary" meaning, but even then, the context must be used. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, ALL have "ὁ θεός" used for them, in EXACTLY the same sense and force of the word. Only your personal "theology" will make a difference between them. Les please deal with FACTS and not personal bias.
The word "God" having the same meaning is NOT the issue at all.

1. "President Trump"

2. "My President Trump"

The world "president" doesn't change meanings in either phrase. However, a European citizen, for example, would never say, "my President Trump." Does that make Trump any less president? No. But there is a CLEAR difference in meaning between the two phrases, despite the word "president" keeping the same meaning in both.
 
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Christodoulos

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The word "God" having the same meaning is NOT the issue at all.

1. "President Trump"

2. "My President Trump"

The world "president" doesn't change meanings in either phrase. However, a European citizen, for example, would never say, "my President Trump." Does that make Trump any less president? No. But there is a CLEAR difference in meaning between the two phrases, despite the word "president" keeping the same meaning in both.

You have not dealt with what I said. so your answer is "to the wind"!
 
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