Traditions of men (continued from TAW)

[Root of Jesse]

It is not even based on scripture either

It is based on Scripture.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No she is not

And you still call her Queen of HEAVEN?

Yes. Scripture tells us Mary is in heaven. Jesus is king of heaven, so Mary, being His mother, is Queen. See Solomon and his queen mother Bathsheba. Why is the queen mother the queen, not the wife of the king? Because kings had multiple wives but only one mother. So the mother of the king became the queen.

 

[~Zao~]

Yes. Scripture tells us Mary is in heaven. Jesus is king of heaven, so Mary, being His mother, is Queen. See Solomon and his queen mother Bathsheba. Why is the queen mother the queen, not the wife of the king? Because kings had multiple wives but only one mother. So the mother of the king became the queen.

Scriptural references of the Queen of Heaven was a heathen god that they made cakes to that was opposed by God. The other heavenly reference to mother was the new Jerusalem.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Scriptural references of the Queen of Heaven was a heathen god that they made cakes to that was opposed by God. The other heavenly reference to mother was the new Jerusalem.

Note that THEY made cakes to. We don't make cakes to Mary, don't worship her, etc. Therefore, she's not the heathen god you're talking about. She is a saint alive in heaven, the mother of the living Son of God. Sorry. You're not convincing anyone.

 

[~Zao~]

Note that THEY made cakes to. We don't make cakes to Mary, don't worship her, etc. Therefore, she's not the heathen god you're talking about. She is a saint alive in heaven, the mother of the living Son of God. Sorry. You're not convincing anyone.

She is a saint, no doubt. Just not the queen of heaven.

 

[LoveofTruth]

It is based on Scripture.

No it’s not, give me the scriptures

 

[LoveofTruth]

]Instead of snipping little portions of Scripture, or anything else, please give context. The entire paragraph is :
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."
This says that the grace Mary had before she consented to be the mother of Jesus, because she consented, continued forever, even to the present, and to the end of time. Because of this fact, she is, indeed, Mother of the Church. She is, indded Mediatrix-being so in no way detracts from Jesus being the ultimate mediator. And yes, she does, if we ask her, bring the salvation of Christ to us.If Mary didn't always point directly to Jesus, you might have a point.I cannot imagine that this is the only prayer you pray.Mary being co-Mediatrix in no way detracts from Jesus being the only mediator.

The entire quote is still the same errors.

And when I said that Jesus said when you pray say our Father. I was pointing out that we pray to the Father in Jesus babe through the Spirit, not to pray to Mary or any other person.

 

[Root of Jesse]

She is a saint, no doubt. Just not the queen of heaven.

Is Jesus king of heaven?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Nowhere in scripture is Mary the mother of the church

Not one verse

The people at the foot of the cross, including John, represent the Church. John was the only male. Jesus looked down at him and said "Behold your mother." The Church's interpretation of this event has always been that Mary is the mother of the Church. So there's your verse. Oh, but you disagree. So what, you disagree. That's what a Protestant is-a dissenter.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The entire quote is still the same errors.

And when I said that Jesus said when you pray say our Father. I was pointing out that we pray to the Father in Jesus babe through the Spirit, not to pray to Mary or any other person.

You can point out the errors, I'm sure, but you're wrong. I get it-you don't believe the same as Catholics do. But there are no errors in the statements. But you're entire premise has been full of errors about the Catholic Church.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The people at the foot of the cross, including John, represent the Church. John was the only male. Jesus looked down at him and said "Behold your mother." The Church's interpretation of this event has always been that Mary is the mother of the Church. So there's your verse. Oh, but you disagree. So what, you disagree. That's what a Protestant is-a dissenter.

No, This does not call her mother of the church Jesus was speaking to John personally, John was simply to look after Mary as his own mother

And we read in scripture Jesus saying

Read carefully, this corrects your doctrine

Mark 3:31. There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.32. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.33. And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?34. And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!35. For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.”

 

[Root of Jesse]

No, This does not call her mother of the church Jesus was speaking to John personally, John was simply to look after Mary as his own mother

And we read in scripture Jesus saying

Read carefully, this corrects your doctrine

Mark 3:31. There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.32. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.33. And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?34. And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!35. For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.”

This is exactly why Sacred Tradition is so important! What you read, in English, 2000 years after it was written is not what was said in Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek. Speech patterns were different. Sacred Tradition gives us the context of the passages you've spoken of. And it's not what you say. Context means everything.
If I say "Put the kitty on the table." out of context you don't know what it means. If there's a poker game going on, you have a better idea. It provides focus. What you're suggesting in Mark is that Jesus didn't honor his mother, as the commandments require. But that's just not so. Mark 3:31 ff simply shows Jesus teaching the crowd, saying that doing the will of God is more important than family (and he was doing the will of God.).

 

[Root of Jesse]

The entire quote is still the same errors.

And when I said that Jesus said when you pray say our Father. I was pointing out that we pray to the Father in Jesus babe through the Spirit, not to pray to Mary or any other person.

I will bet that you do ask others to pray for you.

 

[LoveofTruth]

This is exactly why Sacred Tradition is so important! What you read, in English, 2000 years after it was written is not what was said in Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek. Speech patterns were different. Sacred Tradition gives us the context of the passages you've spoken of. And it's not what you say. Context means everything.
If I say "Put the kitty on the table." out of context you don't know what it means. If there's a poker game going on, you have a better idea. It provides focus. What you're suggesting in Mark is that Jesus didn't honor his mother, as the commandments require. But that's just not so. Mark 3:31 ff simply shows Jesus teaching the crowd, saying that doing the will of God is more important than family (and he was doing the will of God.).

Wrong, the Greek and English are the way they should be

And Jesus didn’t dishonour his mother

Read again the section

 

[Root of Jesse]

Wrong the Greek and English are the way they should be

And Jesus didn’t dishonour his mother

Read again the section

Then why are English translations so different? Why are there so many different interpretations about what Scripture means? Why are there so many denominations that all have differing opinions based on the same Scripture?
Nope. Context is everything. You've been taking a lot of things out of context here, and I've shown you why it's important.

 

[ChicanaRose]

The practice of honoring the saints by gathering around their graves started in the second century.

The practice of invoking the saints was officially approved in the fourth century.

Somewhere in between, perhaps the third century, the practice of invoking them started.

(Sheridan, Mark. “The Saints as an Element in the Communion and Communication in the Early Church.” One in Christ 50, no. 2 (2016))

There is no record of the practice during the first century (i.e. no record of someone praying to Noah or St. Stephen, etc.). It's hard to say that it's biblical.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Is Jesus king of heaven?

I think Protestants would be more open to the idea that Mary is the queen of heaven, if devotions to her did not border on superstition.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Then why are English translations so different? Why are there so many different interpretations about what Scripture means? Why are there so many denominations that all have differing opinions based on the same Scripture?
Nope. Context is everything. You've been taking a lot of things out of context here, and I've shown you why it's important.

The enemy has been busy causing division.

Use the bible the King James Bible and you will have sound scripture. But that’s a 45 hour talk, maybe for another time.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I think Protestants would be more open to the idea that Mary is the queen of heaven, if devotions to her did not border on superstition.

That's a practice of some Catholics, not a teaching of the Church, though. But I agree.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The enemy has been busy causing division.

Use the bible the King James Bible and you will have sound scripture. But that’s a 45 hour talk, maybe for another time.

Many great bibles before KJV.