Traditions of men (continued from TAW)

[Root of Jesse]

“The original descriptions of the being stated that it was less than 3 or 4 feet tall, bald and was wearing a knee length dress. Over the course of time this got changed into a tall beautiful lady”

This was about the Fatima event

I never said anything about the Fatima event.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If anyone preaches another gospel , even an angel from Heaven they are accursed as Paul said,

Galatians 1:8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

Yet from these visions of a being apparently from the sky( or Heaven) transforming into a woman we hear that being say;

“I promise to assist at the hour of death with the graces necessary for salvation”

That is another gospel and any that preach it are not true ministers

Only In Christ is there salvation by believing the gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-5

Who says it's gospel?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Who says it's gospel?

When the being that some claim to be Mary and that is approved of the Catholic Church says she promises to give graces necessary for salvation, that is another gospel. There is salvation in no other than Jesus and the grace is from God. It is called the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I never said anything about the Fatima event.

This Fatima event is apparently approved by the Catholic Church as being Mary,(but it is not)

 

[LoveofTruth]

This is patently wrong. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacy which suggests that, because a rooster crows at sunrise, the rooster causes the sun to rise. In our example, because there was a queen of heaven which was a false deity, and we call Mary by this title, they are one and the same. And it's not true.
Mary is the Queen Mother because Jesus is the King, just as Bathsheba was queen of Israel because Solomon was king.

No your logic and response if faulty here. We are told in scripture who the Queen of Heaven is and Israel was warned about Such a false deity that they were being drawn away to.From what I understand, this woman was known in pagan beliefs with the image of Mother and child a woman holding a child. She is called the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah. This same woman is all through the world known and falsely followed.

We see the roots of the so called mother and child stem to ancient times and how it came into Babylon and Rome etc.

Also we use all scripture for correction reproof, instruction in righteousness and so when we see in scripture that God led the prophet Jeremiah to warn about a false deity called the Queen of Heaven” we know that God is not going to confuse us by calling believers to go towards, venerate, make statues of this deity and bow down to them and try to connect Mary and Jesus to this pagan mother and child

 

[Root of Jesse]

When the being that some claim to be Mary and that is approved of the Catholic Church says she promises to give graces necessary for salvation, that is another gospel. There is salvation in no other than Jesus and the grace is from God. It is called the gospel of the grace of God.

Well, you don't believe it's Mary, it's an apparition, so how could it say anything?
But if you read it carefully, it says she will give graces (who gives her the graces but God???) FOR salvation, not that she will give salvation.
So as you noted, grace is only from God (but if you're FULL OF GRACE, you have some to share, no?), so it's God that grants the salvation.

 

[Root of Jesse]

This Fatima event is apparently approved by the Catholic. Church as being Mary,(but it is not)

Mary is the mother of the Church-that's Scriptural. Fatima is indeed an approved apparition, but it's not necessary for us to believe it.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No your logic and response if faulty here. We are told in scripture who the Queen of Heaven is and Israel was warned about Such a false deity that they were being drawn away to.From what I understand, this woman was known in pagan beliefs with the image of Mother and child a woman holding a child. She is called the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah. This same woman is all through the world known and falsely followed.

The problem is that Mary is not Astarte. Astarte is Astarte and Mary is Mary. Mary is only the queen because Jesus is the King. Jesus is God, Mary is not a god. Astarte is a god for some people.

We see the roots of the so called mother and child stem to ancient times and how it came into Babylon and Rome etc.

Again, if we called Mary God, which we don't, you might have a point.

Also we use all scripture for correction reproof, instruction in righteousness and so when we see in scripture that God led the prophet Jeremiah to warn about a false deity called the Queen of Heaven” we know that God is not going to confuse us by calling believers to go towards, venerate, make statues of this deity and bow down to them and try to connect Mary and Jesus to this pagan mother and child

Since Mary is not God, but mother of God, this doesn't hold true.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Mary is the mother of the Church-that's Scriptural.

No we read

Galatians 4:26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.”

 

[Root of Jesse]

No we read

Galatians 4:26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.”

In context, the Jerusalem in your proof text is heaven. Mary is the mother of the Church on earth.

 

[LoveofTruth]

In context, the Jerusalem in your proof text is heaven. Mary is the mother of the Church on earth.

No she is not

And you still call her Queen of HEAVEN?

 

[LoveofTruth]

In context, the Jerusalem in your proof text is heaven. Mary is the mother of the Church on earth.

A Paul wrote that being himself on Earth

 

[Root of Jesse]

No she is not

And you still call her Queen of HEAVEN?

Yes, and I explained why. Are you saying Jesus is not the King of heaven?

 

[Root of Jesse]

A Paul wrote that being himself on Earth

Right. But read the context. Vs. 21-25.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Right. But read the context. Vs. 21-25.

Nowhere in scripture is Mary the mother of the church

Not one verse

 

[LoveofTruth]

In context, the Jerusalem in your proof text is heaven. Mary is the mother of the Church on earth.

The catechism says such erroneous unbiblical things as this

“969 "... Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. ... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

No she is not a Mediatrix,
And she does not have a “saving office”, nor does she bring the gift of eternal salvation

There is such error in the words I quoted from the Catholic catechism It would take pages to correct it. But needless to say we can see how the wrong doctrines and traditions of men can seriously hurt souls and direct them away from the saviour Jesus Christ, who said “Come unto me”

And who said when you pray say “our Father”

Also there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 2:5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;6. Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

 

[Root of Jesse]

Nowhere in scripture is Mary the mother of the church

Not one verse

Scripture is not the only Word of God. We don't believe it has to be in Scripture. But it has to be based on Scripture. Scripture only covers the first generation of the Church.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The catechism says such erroneous unbiblical things as this

“969 "... Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. ... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

No she is not a Mediatrix,
And she does not have a “saving office”, nor does she bring the gift of eternal salvation

]Instead of snipping little portions of Scripture, or anything else, please give context. The entire paragraph is :
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."
This says that the grace Mary had before she consented to be the mother of Jesus, because she consented, continued forever, even to the present, and to the end of time. Because of this fact, she is, indeed, Mother of the Church. She is, indded Mediatrix-being so in no way detracts from Jesus being the ultimate mediator. And yes, she does, if we ask her, bring the salvation of Christ to us.

There is such error in the words I quoted from the Catholic catechism It would take pages to correct it. But needless to say we can see how the wrong doctrines and traditions of men can seriously hurt souls and direct them away from the saviour Jesus Christ, who said “Come unto me”

If Mary didn't always point directly to Jesus, you might have a point.

]
And who said when you pray say “our Father”

I cannot imagine that this is the only prayer you pray.

Also there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 2:5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;6. Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Mary being co-Mediatrix in no way detracts from Jesus being the only mediator.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Scripture is not the only Word of God. We don't believe it has to be in Scripture. But it has to be based on Scripture. Scripture only covers the first generation of the Church.

It is not even based on scripture either

 

[Root of Jesse]

A Paul wrote that being himself on Earth

So what?