Traditional Latin Mass Group and the Child Abuse Scandal

[AMDG]

priests may travel over bumpy or non-existent roads

More reason to follow the New GIRM and the RS and require noble unbreakable material in chalices, but I thought that this thread was about the abuse scandal and that we are being challenged to defend the fact that that scandal was not caused by the Tridentine Mass not about the Tridentine Mass itself or the wisdom of the GIRM.

 

[BAFRIEND]

i saw a host accentally dropped on the floor once- the priest immediately scooped it up and swallowed it ending all speculation

i think people are making a mountain over a molehill

 

[JimR-OCDS]

AMDG

This claim is so old it has whiskers! And it isn't now (nor was it ever) quite true either. The inexpensive missals (inexpensive then, but not now) were used for folks to prayerfully follow the Mass (BTW that was called "participation"). The Missals had the vernacular on one page, and on the other page (right next to it) was the Latin. Oh, forgot to mention that purchasing one missal (which was very inexpensive to begin with) had the Mass and readings for 10 years--not like the newer pew missalettes that must be changed every season--or the newer regular missal that require much page turning.

Yeah, thats what we had before Vatican II and people could follow Latin words they didn't understand and cross referrence over to the English to see what they meant. All resulting in taking the heart away from the Mass while the head tried to deal with the language.

There is a reason why the Holy Spirit inspired the Bishops and the Pope to change over to the NO and the vernacular.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

benedictaoo

Okay great but when you use the format of the TLM, it's really hard to be irreverent.

No it isn't hard to be irreverent because people just day dreamed through the Mass, or prayed the Rosary. People felt so disconnected, they sought out the priest who could say the Mass the fastest.

You would have to go way out of your way and be deliberately irreverent

As you do with the NO. Any format where the people attending take Mass in a lackadaisical way will end up being irreverent.

But, I don't see the NO ever being discontinued so I'm not going to worry over it.

Example:

TLM:Communion time, in order for it to end up on the floor, one would have to, on purpose, spit the host out on the floor.

NO: It can easy fall out of a person's hands on to the floor for several reasons.

It just as easily fell out of the hands of the priest as he attempts to place the host on the person's tongue without swiping his fingers across it.

I remember the panic that people felt when it happened. Everything would stop as the priest went through the process of picking up the host and cleaning the spot where it fell.

It was as if the all powerful God needed our protection, rather than we need His.

Jim

 

[St_Barnabus]

A year ago for lent, I decided to humble myself and take holy communion on the tongue. The Eucharistic minister apparently is so used to putting the host in a person's hand, that they had a problem getting it on my tongue, and I was almost in a panic that it was slipping from my mouth. The was the end of my trying to receive on the tongue. I never have to worry about it slipping from my hand, especially since we were taught to cup our palms.

 

[KatherineS]

AMDG



Yeah, thats what we had before Vatican II and people could follow Latin words they didn't understand and cross referrence over to the English to see what they meant. All resulting in taking the heart away from the Mass while the head tried to deal with the language.

There is a reason why the Holy Spirit inspired the Bishops and the Pope to change over to the NO and the vernacular.

Jim

Exactly, Jim. And even the hand Missal a liberal innovation the traditionalists fought tooth and nail.

But people following the Mass like people watch a tennis match is less than ideal.

 

[St_Barnabus]

This conversation over missals seems like deja vu. Very few people require the missal or missalette. If anyone does, they are free to buy one and use it. Please, however, don't expect that everyone else should be made to use your preferred style of following the mass. After all, the GIRM has specified that one is to listen.

78. The Eucharistic Prayer demands that all listen to it with reverence and in silence.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

85% of the sex abuse allegations occured prior to VII-

This is grosely incorrect. Virtually all of the cases now in the news occured in the mid 60's, all through the 70's and 80's. Vatican II convened in October 1962.

 

[benedictaoo]

This is grosely incorrect. Virtually all of the cases now in the news occured in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Vatican II convened in October 1962.

and the 90's

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The devil tempts us all but he is not an excuse.

That's what Monica said.

 

[KatherineS]

This is grosely incorrect. Virtually all of the cases now in the news occured in the mid 60's, all through the 70's and 80's. Vatican II convened in October 1962.

That would mean most of the priest-absuers went to seminary before the Council and were ordained according to the Tridentine ritual.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

That would mean most of the priest-absuers went to seminary before the Council and were ordained according to the Tridentine ritual.

You are really grasping at straws with that one.

 

[AMDG]

A year ago for lent, I decided to humble myself and take holy communion on the tongue. The Eucharistic minister apparently is so used to putting the host in a person's hand, that they had a problem getting it on my tongue, and I was almost in a panic that it was slipping from my mouth. The was the end of my trying to receive on the tongue. I never have to worry about it slipping from my hand, especially since we were taught to cup our palms.

I always receive on the tongue in the Novus Ordo (it's the approved Latin Rite "norm" and it's my right to choose it or the indult) plus it has nothing to do with the Novus Ordo. I've never had any problems and never had the priest or extraordinary minister have to "sweep his/her fingers across my tongue or even touch it. Y'all should stop exaggerating.

Honestly, what does how one receives communion have to do with some sinful predatory homosexual abusing children?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You are really grasping at straws with that one.

Being it took a man about 10 years to become a priest, that would mean a man entering the seminary in 1960, wouldn't be ordained until 1970.

Vatican II didn't open until 1962. The Missal of Paul VI, didn't come out until 1973.

So yeah, it would seem that many of the priest who committed sexual abuse, were the product of pre-Vatican II training.

Jim

 

[benedictaoo]

That would mean most of the priest-absuers went to seminary before the Council and were ordained according to the Tridentine ritual.

Seriously, y'all all need to get a serious grip. Stop the blame game, passing the buck, projection, deflection and everything else.

There is no link, TLM is not what caused the abuse of children. I've heard some absurdities, but this one takes the cake, in fact, it takes the whole bakery and it shows how deep your liberalism runs.

I can't even see the sense in you trying to connect the Mass with the abuse but what ever. Anything to pass an agenda I guess.

 

[benedictaoo]

Being it took a man about 10 years to become a priest, that would mean a man entering the seminary in 1960, wouldn't be ordained until 1970.

Vatican II didn't open until 1962. The Missal of Paul VI, didn't come out until 1973.

So yeah, it would seem that many of the priest who committed sexual abuse, were the product of pre-Vatican II training.

Jim

wow, i thought it was because they were emotionally stunted homosexuals? Now it's because of the Vll training?

Yeah, they trained gay priest to go and molest young boys.

Believe. What. Ever. Makes. It. Easy. To. Sleep. At. Night.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Seriously, y'all all need to get a serious grip. Stop the blame game, passing the buck, projection, deflection and everything else.

There is no link, TLM is not what caused the abuse of children. I've heard some absurdities, but this one takes the cake, in fact, it takes the whole bakery and it shows how deep your liberalism runs.

I can't even see the sense in you trying to connect the Mass with the abuse but what ever. Anything to pass an agenda I guess.

Actually, we're not playing the blame game, but essentially showing how ridiculous it is for those who blame Vatican II and the Novus Ordo format of the Mass for the sex abuse scandal.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

wow, i thought it was because they were emotionally stunted homosexuals? Now it's because of the Vll training?

Yeah, they trained gay priest to go and molest young boys.

Believe. What. Ever. Makes. It. Easy. To. Sleep. At. Night.

How did you come up with this twisted logic based on what I posted?


Jim

 

[benedictaoo]

How did you come up with this twisted logic based on what I posted?


Jim

So yeah, it would seem that many of the priest who committed sexual abuse, were the product of pre-Vatican II training.

Gee undunno...

abuse happened in the 90's to, I'm sure it more then likely happened somehow, in the big huge world wide Church, happened in the 2000's.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Gee undunno...

abuse happened in the 90's to, I'm sure it more then likely happened somehow, in the big huge world wide Church, happened in the 2000's.

Abuse cases in the 90's were nil compared to the 60's and 70's, which is what was being addressed in my post.

Jim