Tortures from the antichrist

Do you believe in the left behind theory?

  • yes

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Saint Steven

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This. When I believed in a rapture, I leaned towards pre-trib as well. I used to be able to support it with Scripture, but it's been ages and I'm now a bit rusty.

Nowadays, if I were going to be "raptured" (in the biblical sense -- I did experience something that could be considered rapture-esque on the same day Harold Camping predicted a rapture, back in 2011), I would want to take everyone with me.
Thanks for your comments.
Please tell us what happened to you in 2011.

I'm in the same rusty boat.
I could probably come up with the scriptures, but it would be some work.

I used to attend End Times Prophecy conferences. And I noticed that those who were well-studied in that area were primarily Pre-trib.

And yes, it would be great to take everyone with you, but then it wouldn't really be a rapture. Here's an important point below. (I think)

Without the "left behind" there is no Rapture.
 
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Saint Steven

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I searched through my old online notes on the subject and found this.
With a quick scan through I can see problems. But it is a complete presentation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's a timeline and detail I wrote many years ago.
This represents my view of eschatology. (end times events)

I start with four main elements (the broad view)
and expand the explanation for each below.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

End Times Timeline


Here is the broad view. I will expand this view below.

1) The Church Age
2) The Tribulation Period
3) The Millennium
4) Eternity - Heaven/Hell

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


1) The Church Age
A) You are Here - The Church Age ends at the Rapture of the "Church" (the Bride of Christ).

2) The Tribulation Period - Seven Year period
A) The Antichrist revealed
B) Two parts - both 3.5 years
C) The Abomination of Desolation occurs at the the 3.5 year mark (the Great Tribulation)
D) The Battle of Armageddon - ends the tribulation period with the Second Coming of Christ.

3) The Millennium - 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth
A) Satan bound at the beginning of the Millennium and kept in the Pit, to be released at the end of the Millennium
B) Christ reigns on earth with the raptured church.
C) Peace on Earth
D) At the end of the Millennium, Satan is released from the Pit.
He deceives the kings of the earth to battle Christ and the church in the final battle.
E) Satan and the kings of the earth are defeated.
F) Final Judgement occurs at the end of the Millennium.

4) Eternity - Heaven/Hell
A) God re-creates the Heavens and the Earth
B) Those who are God’s elect spend eternity with him.
C) Those who choose to follow Satan are bound for eternal destruction in Hell.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The Church Age:

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached
in the whole world as a testimony to all nations,
and then the end will come.


Rapture of the Church:

Matthew 24:40-44
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at
what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch
and would not have let his house be broken into.
44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man
will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

I Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven,
with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel
and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be
caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will be with the Lord forever.


The Antichrist revealed:

II Thessalonians 2:7-11
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work;
but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so
till he is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed,
whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth
and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the
work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing.
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie


The Great Tribulation:

Matthew 24:21-22, 29
For then there will be great distress,
unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—
and never to be equaled again.
22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive,
but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened...
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days
" ’the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.


The Abomination of Desolation:

Daniel 9:23-27
As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you,
for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:
24 "Seventy ’sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression,
to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.
25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ’sevens,’ and sixty-two ’sevens.’
It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
26 After the sixty-two ’sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.
The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ’seven.’ In the middle of the ’seven’
he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation,
until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Matthew 24:15
"So when you see standing in the holy place ’the abomination that causes desolation,’
spoken of through the prophet Daniel- let the reader understand—


The Battle of Armageddon:

Revelation 16:16
Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.


The Second Coming of Christ:

Matthew 24:30-31
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky,
and all the nations of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky,
with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call,
and they will gather his elect from the four winds,
from one end of the heavens to the other.


Satan Bound for 1,000 Years:

Revelation 20:1-3
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven,
having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan,
and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him,
to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
After that, he must be set free for a short time.


The Millennial Reign of Christ:

Revelation 20:4-6
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus
and because of the word of God.
They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)
This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection.
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ
and will reign with him for a thousand years.


Satan Released to Deceive the Nations:

Revelation 20:7- 8
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—
Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle.
In number they are like the sand on the seashore.


The Final Battle:

Revelation 20:9-10
They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people,
the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,
where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Final Judgement:

Revelation 20:11-15
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it.
Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne,
and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it,
and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them,
and each person was judged according to what he had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is the second death.
15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life,
he was thrown into the lake of fire.


The New Heavens and New Earth:

II Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief.
The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire,
and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be?
You ought to live holy and godly lives
12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth,
the home of righteousness.
 
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SaintNick

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When I was a Christian I liked thinking about the torture and trials future Christians would face in the tribulation, lol. Sadly those Christians who are obsessed with suffering and persecution probably overbear those Christians who are not. I guess they have their pre-tribulation ideas to cling onto.
"

What are you still doing on a Christian forum then?
You never were a true Christian. If you took pleasure in thinking about the torture and trials.
 
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Rajni

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Thanks for your comments.
Please tell us what happened to you in 2011.

I'm in the same rusty boat.
I could probably come up with the scriptures, but it would be some work.

I used to attend End Times Prophecy conferences. And I noticed that those who were well-studied in that area were primarily Pre-trib.

And yes, it would be great to take everyone with you, but then it wouldn't really be a rapture. Here's an important point below. (I think)

Without the "left behind" there is no Rapture.
Well, it would be a Rapture (the word itself isn't in scripture in the first place, so there's wiggle-room in how to apply it), just not as traditionally taught. The word, in and of itself, doesn't really necessitate anyone being left behind.

What happened to me in 2011 doesn't fall within the confines of traditional mainstream Christian thought, so it was liberating from that standpoint in that it showed me that God definitely isn't restricted to any single religious box people like to put Him in. I forgot that I had deleted my blog here on CF, so I set up a new one, and re-posted my 2011 experience there. Here's the link: My Rapture: Caught Up In The (rain) Clouds | Christian Forums. I may take it down later, I don't know.
 
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Saint Steven

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Well, it would be a Rapture (the word itself isn't in scripture in the first place, so there's wiggle-room in how to apply it), just not as traditionally taught. The word, in and of itself, doesn't really necessitate anyone being left behind.

What happened to me in 2011 doesn't fall within the confines of traditional mainstream Christian thought, so it was liberating from that standpoint in that it showed me that God definitely isn't restricted to any single religious box people like to put Him in. I forgot that I had deleted my blog here on CF, so I set up a new one, and re-posted my 2011 experience there. Here's the link: My Rapture: Caught Up In The (rain) Clouds | Christian Forums. I may take it down later, I don't know.
Thanks for posting that. Maybe "enraptured" is the word you are looking for. ???

If you haven't already, you might want to check out Christian Universalism. A belief that rejects the "forever burning hell" idea on some very solid biblical language study. You are already familiar with the "inerrancy" issues, so you might be intrigued by this. Tentmaker – Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe. I Tim. 4:10 --- or --- The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
 
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Rajni

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Thanks for posting that. Maybe "enraptured" is the word you are looking for. ???

If you haven't already, you might want to check out Christian Universalism. A belief that rejects the "forever burning hell" idea on some very solid biblical language study. You are already familiar with the "inerrancy" issues, so you might be intrigued by this. Tentmaker – Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe. I Tim. 4:10 --- or --- The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
Yes! Christian Universalism! :clap:

The most recent leg of the Christian phase of my spiritual journey was Christian Universalism. I argued against the concept of hell for a looooooong time right here on CF -- most of which was in the Controversial Christian Theology forum (or whatever it's called now). 1 Corinthians 15:22 was the verse that initially launched me in that direction, and I had seen it many times before it clicked like that.

Good stuff.
 
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Saint Steven

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Yes! Christian Universalism! :clap:

The most recent leg of the Christian phase of my spiritual journey was Christian Universalism. I argued against the concept of hell for a looooooong time right here on CF -- most of which was in the Controversial Christian Theology forum (or whatever it's called now). 1 Corinthians 15:22 was the verse that initially launched me in that direction, and I had seen it many times before it clicked like that.

Good stuff.
I'm new to Universalism.
It's requiring a lot of study to understand it. I was hoping it was true, but what I knew of the Bible didn't support it. It comes down to a lot of word studies and understanding some history behind the forever-burning-hell doctrine. Interesting stuff.

Not sure if the rapture theory fits in Universalism or not. It might. There seems to be way more than just a division between two types (saved and lost) in Universalism.
 
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Rajni

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I'm new to Universalism.
It's requiring a lot of study to understand it. I was hoping it was true, but what I knew of the Bible didn't support it. It comes down to a lot of word studies and understanding some history behind the forever-burning-hell doctrine. Interesting stuff.
Yeah, the bible can be read so many different ways that it accommodates many of the positions that are represented in discussions and debates about Universalism. Very multi-faceted in that regard. Much like Reality itself -- how it is depends mostly on how we perceive it.

Not sure if the rapture theory fits in Universalism or not. It might. There seems to be way more than just a division between two types (saved and lost) in Universalism.
There probably is, though it's been awhile since I looked into it. I do recall that there are different views just within Christian Universalist category, such as the belief that some people are saved and some aren't (yet), and the belief that everyone's already saved and some just don't realize it yet (I think I gradually fell into that latter camp). One quote I remember reading was along the lines of: "There are two kinds of people in the world -- those who are saved, and those who will be."

Where I'm at now, I no more believe in endless torment in hell and AntiChrists than I do Mordor or vampires. :) I do believe one can have that which may be perceived as "hellish" experiences or situations, but that's just part of existence and happens independently of belief-system.

At any rate, if I ever revert back to being a Christian again, I'd be Universalist. Right now I'm probably more New-Agey (or old-agey -- my beliefs aren't new by any stretch of the imagination) than Christian at this juncture (though what is defined as "Christian" varies, so, in someone's book, I might still be considered "Christian", but I prefer not to use that label myself to avoid confusing people).
 
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ilovejcsog

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Thanks for posting that. Maybe "enraptured" is the word you are looking for. ???

If you haven't already, you might want to check out Christian Universalism. A belief that rejects the "forever burning hell" idea on some very solid biblical language study. You are already familiar with the "inerrancy" issues, so you might be intrigued by this. Tentmaker – Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe. I Tim. 4:10 --- or --- The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
You are taking my thread off topic again. Go somewhere else to peddle that CULT..
 
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Rajni

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Where I'm at now, I no more believe in endless torment in hell and AntiChrists than I do Mordor or vampires. :) I do believe one can have that which may be perceived as "hellish" experiences or situations, but that's just part of existence and happens independently of belief-system.
Come to think of it, a hellish experience for some might be the thought that no one ends up there (think of the righteous brother in the story of the prodigal son). That's why Christian Universalism can garner very vicious reactions in some people.
 
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Saint Steven

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There probably is, though it's been awhile since I looked into it. I do recall that there are different views just within Christian Universalist category, such as the belief that some people are saved and some aren't (yet), and the belief that everyone's already saved and some just don't realize it yet (I think I gradually fell into that latter camp). One quote I remember reading was along the lines of: "There are two kinds of people in the world -- those who are saved, and those who will be."
Yes, that last statement strikes a chord with me. "There are two kinds of people in the world -- those who are saved, and those who will be." --- Kind of a refreshing way of looking at people, rather than thinking that 95% of people are lost to an eternal hell.

A key revelation I had recently is the idea that if "every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Christ is Lord", those individuals, designated as "all", must be believers, because the Bible also says that NO ONE can say (confess) that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. And only the saved HAVE the Holy Spirit.
 
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Well, it would be a Rapture (the word itself isn't in scripture in the first place, so there's wiggle-room in how to apply it)


The word is in the bible, the Greek word for Rapture is Harpazo and it's in the bible.
 
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Saint Steven

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You are taking my thread off topic again. Go somewhere else to peddle that CULT..
Again?
What do you mean "again"?

This topic seems to have run out of fuel.
It has digressed into a diverse social gathering.
 
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I'm not familiar with that.
I de-converted a good 4 decades or more ago. I can't help but wonder if I had ran into a Richard Rohr back than if I would have stayed a Christian. But I don't believe he was teaching back than. Needless to say, he's helped me experience Christ that's very much alive and vibrant within Life itSelf.
 
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