Torah of the Spirit

[Shimshon]

The Spirit receives all instruction from Yeshua, he reveals things to us from the Spirit. The Torah of the Spirit glorifies Yeshua, and makes all things known to us. It is the Spirit that brings life, the Torah of the flesh is of no help. John 16:17-28

John 16
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

28 I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”
​

The command is to know the LORD (Yeshua). How do we know the LORD?​

Yeshua said the Father is teaching all people to listen and believe in the One He sent. Yeshua said the Father is teaching everyone to believe and listen to Yeshua for eternal life, and the forgiveness of sins. Yeshua said, whoever listens to the commands of the Father ‘comes to Yeshua’.

In other words, the Father is commanding all to have a relationship with him by coming to Yeshua for forgiveness of sins. The Father placed all authority to judge with Yeshua, so the Father is calling (commanding) all to come to Yeshua to be forgiven.

Yeshua is the snake being held up on the stick, the cursed one that if we look upon him AND BELIEVE will bring healing. (Numbers 21:8)

John 6:44-51 No one can come to me unless the Father — the One who sent me — draws him. And I will raise him up on the Last Day.

It is written in the Prophets, `They will all be taught by ADONAI. Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God — he has seen the Father.

Yes, indeed! I tell you, whoever trusts has eternal life: 48 I am the bread which is life. Your fathers ate the man in the desert; they died. But the bread that comes down from heaven is such that a person may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that has come down from heaven; if anyone eats this bread, he will live forever. Furthermore, the bread that I will give is my own flesh; and I will give it for the life of the world.”
​

ALL are commanded to receive forgiveness & Spirit through Faith in Yeshua.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
​

Teach all nations in the world as I have taught you. Yeshua himself instructed the gentiles through the apostles to observe all that he had commanded.

Acts 1:1 In the first book, O 1Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began 2to do and teach, 2 until the day when 3he was taken up, after he 4had given commands 5through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.
​

Yeshua gave commands through the Spirit to the to the apostles. Here is what Peter stated Yeshua commanded him.

Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.“​

He commanded the apostles to preach and testify that Yeshua is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead, he is God in the flesh.

Psalms 50
1 The Mighty One, God the LORD, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting. 2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God shines forth. 3 Our God comes; he does not keep silence; before him is a devouring fire, around him a mighty tempest. 4 He calls to the heavens above and to the earth, that he may judge his people: 5 “Gather to me my faithful ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice!” 6 The heavens declare his righteousness, for God himself is judge! Selah
​

The prophets all bore witness that EVERYONE who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.

Jeremiah 31:34And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’11for they shall all know me, 12 from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For 13 I will forgive their iniquity, and 14I will remember their sin no more.”

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.

Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,to the praise of his glory.
​

How did they all know Him?

We know Him though the salvation of God, (Yeshua) forgiving sins and remembering them no more. When we believe this message sent from God, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us. The Holy Spirit is the seal that guarantees our inheritance, which is eternal life in union with God through His Spirit. Which was also given to the gentiles, when they believe in the authority given Yeshua. The inheritance is eternal life with Yeshua, and his forgiving our sins and remembering them no more.

The Torah of the Spirit frees all from the Torah of sin and death.

 

[Choir Loft]

John 16
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

28 I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”
​

The command is to know the LORD (Yeshua). How do we know the LORD?​

Yeshua said the Father is teaching all people to listen and believe in the One He sent. Yeshua said the Father is teaching everyone to believe and listen to Yeshua for eternal life, and the forgiveness of sins. Yeshua said, whoever listens to the commands of the Father ‘comes to Yeshua’.

In other words, the Father is commanding all to have a relationship with him by coming to Yeshua for forgiveness of sins. The Father placed all authority to judge with Yeshua, so the Father is calling (commanding) all to come to Yeshua to be forgiven.

Yeshua is the snake being held up on the stick, the cursed one that if we look upon him AND BELIEVE will bring healing. (Numbers 21:8)

John 6:44-51 No one can come to me unless the Father — the One who sent me — draws him. And I will raise him up on the Last Day.

It is written in the Prophets, `They will all be taught by ADONAI. Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God — he has seen the Father.

Yes, indeed! I tell you, whoever trusts has eternal life: 48 I am the bread which is life. Your fathers ate the man in the desert; they died. But the bread that comes down from heaven is such that a person may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that has come down from heaven; if anyone eats this bread, he will live forever. Furthermore, the bread that I will give is my own flesh; and I will give it for the life of the world.”
​

ALL are commanded to receive forgiveness & Spirit through Faith in Yeshua.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
​

Teach all nations in the world as I have taught you. Yeshua himself instructed the gentiles through the apostles to observe all that he had commanded.

Acts 1:1 In the first book, O 1Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began 2to do and teach, 2 until the day when 3he was taken up, after he 4had given commands 5through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.
​

Yeshua gave commands through the Spirit to the to the apostles. Here is what Peter stated Yeshua commanded him.

Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.“​

He commanded the apostles to preach and testify that Yeshua is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead, he is God in the flesh.

Psalms 50
1 The Mighty One, God the LORD, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting. 2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God shines forth. 3 Our God comes; he does not keep silence; before him is a devouring fire, around him a mighty tempest. 4 He calls to the heavens above and to the earth, that he may judge his people: 5 “Gather to me my faithful ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice!” 6 The heavens declare his righteousness, for God himself is judge! Selah
​

The prophets all bore witness that EVERYONE who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.

Jeremiah 31:34And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’11for they shall all know me, 12 from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For 13 I will forgive their iniquity, and 14I will remember their sin no more.”

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.

Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,to the praise of his glory.
​

How did they all know Him?

We know Him though the salvation of God, (Yeshua) forgiving sins and remembering them no more. When we believe this message sent from God, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us. The Holy Spirit is the seal that guarantees our inheritance, which is eternal life in union with God through His Spirit. Which was also given to the gentiles, when they believe in the authority given Yeshua. The inheritance is eternal life with Yeshua, and his forgiving our sins and remembering them no more.

The Torah of the Spirit frees all from the Torah of sin and death.

.....​

The Torah of the Spirit frees all from the Torah of sin and death.

Thank you for your post. It is an amazing example of buzz words and concocted slogans that confuse truth. I must reiterate here that the use of such invented phrases is counter productive to understanding spiritual truth.

Your buzz words are misapplied and lead to confusion.

The purpose of scripture is to convey truth NOT to justify and redefine buzz words and slogans.

You are using scripture quotations inappropriately. This is why I won't argue scripture. This is why I argue against buzz words and slogans. You seem to deliberately miss the point. Why?

"Torah of the Spirit" seems to imply GRACE. So why not use the word that's used in the Bible?

Another error is apparent in your slogan. Neither "Torah of spirit" nor grace frees anyone from "Torah of sin and death" - whatever that's supposed to be.

Here's the short version of Biblical intent with regard to Law and Grace.

The LAW convicts of sin so that Grace may forgive us of our sin so that we may live by the Law.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

"I did not come to abolish the law, I came to fulfill it." - Yeshuah as quoted by Matt 5:17

Most protestant churches in America teach the death or destruction of the Law. This is a doctrine of demons. The Law is eternal and stands for all time, buzz words notwithstanding.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Shimshon]

The Torah of the Spirit given by Yeshua reveled the Father and spoke his words. That Yeshua came and was sent by God the Father to speak the Torah of the Spirit which gives life to the dead. If we believe. Yeshua has given us the Spirit of God that we may all be one, Yeshua in us, God in Yeshua, so that we may be made completely whole and united as one. John 17:5-22

John 17
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
​

We are the book God is writing, as opposed to the written scriptures we already have. And as opposed, I mean in contrast to, not the abolition of.

In 2 Corinthians 3 Paul describes how we are ministers of the new covenant, as opposed to the covenant made from Sinai.

Ministers of the New Covenant
1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?
​

We are not ministers of the letters, ink or stone, but of the Spirit. The letter kills, but in contrast, the Spirit gives life.

Paul refers to the written Torah as the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, coming with such glory that Yisrael COULD not gaze at Moshe’s face because of it. Of which glory was being brought to an end. And contrasted with the ministry of the Spirit, having even more glory than that which was being brought to an end.In order to accept the authority of Yeshua you have to accept that which he has done, is made to do, and will be doing in the future. And understand the difference between them.

Jesus, High Priest of a Better Covenant
Hebrews 8
1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer. 4 Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. 5 They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”

6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. 8 For he finds fault with them when he says:”Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.​

One wonders if any Messianic, SDA, Hebrew roots adherents even understand this at all. IF Yeshua were here on earth he would not be a priest at all according to the law. Because it is only a shadow and pattern of the heavenly Torah of the Spirit. AND those under the new covenant made through Yeshua's blood "shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother saying "Know the Lord", because we all know him, from the least to the greatest."

John 2:16-25
16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father’s house a house of trade.” 17 His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.” 18 So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?”

21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
​

The Scripture AND the word that Yeshua speaks. The scriptures all foretold of Yeshua and his eternal covenant through the ministry of the Spirit. Yeshua spoke of it, God witnessed it, and the Spirit witnesses and reveals it. Notice it does not state they believed the Scriptures Yeshua had spoken. As if he only renewed them. His spoken words are on par if not 'more sure and excellent' than the Scriptures.

2 Peter 1
18 This voice we heard come out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy mountain. 19 We have the more sure word of prophecy; where unto you do well that you take heed, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns, and the day star arises in your hearts: 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation. 21 For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke, being moved by the Ruach HaKodesh.
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When the Spirit speaks, do you refer him to what was said or ignore him? When Moses prophesied about Yeshua's words in Deut 18 he was only referring to the words given to Moses? Or do they refer to a word spoken that if not believed would cause your eternal death? Moses was not referring to the words spoken on the mountain there but the words that would be spoken through Yeshua the Messiah.

Jesus Knows What Is in Man
John 2
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many believed in his name when they saw the signs that he was doing. 24 But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people 25 and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man.

1 Corinthians 6:14-20
14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
​

Glorify God in our body, because we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, the ‘ark’ of his covenant. We have become One with Him as He is with God. Written not on carved stone, or penned parchment, but on hearts of flesh, by God himself. The Torah of the Spirit being written upon our hearts.

Now place your book where it can be read! And open it to whoever humbly asks.

 

[Choir Loft]

Post #23 seems to be a very lengthy justification of apostolic authority. Really? Are you now claiming papal authority?

The post is very long and makes frequent use of scripture references in an attempt to prove legitimacy. Kinda reminds me of the same sort of thing used by the Holy See in Rome to justify Papal infallibility.

(Scripture references notwithstanding I assume Pope Francis would soon learn he isn't infallible if he was married.)

Throughout history many men have sought to justify errant ideology by means of scripture. The device they use to do it is to create new phrases and word meanings. Following this act of prestidigitation they reassign meanings to the new phrases by use of glittering generalities and scripture. Repeated often enough, such words seem to gain legitimacy. In point of fact they only remain obscure and illegitimate.

Despite your frequent dependency upon scripture to justify your vague points about what is or is not a spirit, I find none of your scripture references actually quoting the phrases 'Torah of the Spirit' or 'Torah of ...[insert redefined terminology]...' Perhaps because it doesn't appear in the Bible at all?

AGAIN and as often as I reiterate my words AGAIN the use of the phrase Torah of the Spirit is a slogan. A buzz word that requires lengthy explanation for the reader to glean understanding from vague ideas. And lengthy explanations seem to be your forte here....proving my point actually.

Apparently my appeals to logic and simplicity aren't getting through. I wonder why? The only conclusion I can make is that there is some sort of hidden agenda here. Why can't plain scripture be used plainly?

Finally, you are no apostle as far as I'm concerned unless of course you've performed a miracle lately. Have you? Miracles are the seal of apostolic ministry, not buzz words.

An actual acknowledgment that the use of buzz words is an epidemic in today's culture and that such use leads to confusion would be a major concession to my argument. But you refuse most adamantly. Again I wonder why.

Well, all I can say at this point is that I admit to not being an apostle - so what do I know.....except plain truth plainly stated.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Shimshon]

Messiah's spoken words are the Torah of the Spirit.

The Torah of the Spirit is the Torah of Messiah.

I follow the Torah of the Spirit, given by Messiah Yeshua. All Yeshua's words, because they are 'the Spirit of God'. Commanding us to believe in the One God sent, Yeshua and his words. This is why God placed his Spirit within Yeshua the Messiah. To speak commands to us. All the words of Messiah are commands by the Spirit of God to lead us to salvation. He has led the way to the inner sanctuary, for us to be united as one with God. Through the Spirit, given by the Messiah Yeshua. Who comes to live within our hearts. Writing his ways upon them. Living along with us as we travel in this wilderness. A 'little sanctuary' till the day he restores ALL our fortunes. May he come quickly and soon, even in our day!

The Torah of Messiah (My sayings 'John 12:7) is not the same as the Torah of Moses. (John 6:43-58)

John 6
29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the work of God is to believe in his words, in the Messiah's Torah. So they rightly ask, what about Moses?? Does what Yeshua do and say equal what Moses said and did? Yeshua said his Torah was 'the true' Torah to be eaten and drank.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the will of the father is for everyone to look on the Son and believe in him. All who do will be forgiven and redeemed, forever. No mention of observances to the Torah of Moses.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that he himself came down from heaven to do the will of God. Which was and is to look upon and believe in Messiah Yeshua for the forgiveness of our sins and the redemption of our souls. His work is what we have faith in. His work is what redeems us fully.

43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that God is teaching everyone to come to Yeshua for eternal life. The bread we eat is not like the bread our fathers ate. What came down from heaven for them sustained them for a time, but still allowed them to die. What comes down from heaven for us now, if eaten will sustain us forever. Many seem to want to suppose that Yeshua was leading all back to the fathers bread, as if he is testifying and witnessing the Torah of Moses. But it's the other way around, Yeshua is testified and witnessed by the Torah given Moses. Messiah does not compare his food (Torah) with Moses' as 'the true' food if the bread the fathers ate was to be fed to us for life.

My words.....the true food.....not like the food Moses fed..... So, it seems scripture proves Messiah identifies a separation between the bread from heaven which is Messiah, the Word made flesh from the bread given Moses. One is called 'true food' while the bread (Word) given Moses was not.

John 6:32 “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.​

The Word of God spoken through Messiah states 'it was not Moses' that is 'the true bread from heaven'. Yeshua contrasted (separated) what was given Israel through Moses with what was given Israel through Messiah Yeshua.

Is it any wonder then why Christians do not want to eat of the bread given through Moses? And that attempting to equate or conflate the two would be flat out rejected by Christians according to scripture and the very Words of Messiah himself?

 

[Choir Loft]

The Torah of Messiah (My sayings 'John 12:7) is not the same as the Torah of Moses. (John 6:43-58)

John 6
29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the work of God is to believe in his words, in the Messiah's Torah. So they rightly ask, what about Moses?? Does what Yeshua do and say equal what Moses said and did? Yeshua said his Torah was 'the true' Torah to be eaten and drank.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that the will of the father is for everyone to look on the Son and believe in him. All who do will be forgiven and redeemed, forever. No mention of observances to the Torah of Moses.

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that he himself came down from heaven to do the will of God. Which was and is to look upon and believe in Messiah Yeshua for the forgiveness of our sins and the redemption of our souls. His work is what we have faith in. His work is what redeems us fully.

43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
​

Messiah Yeshua testified and witnessed that God is teaching everyone to come to Yeshua for eternal life. The bread we eat is not like the bread our fathers ate. What came down from heaven for them sustained them for a time, but still allowed them to die. What comes down from heaven for us now, if eaten will sustain us forever. Many seem to want to suppose that Yeshua was leading all back to the fathers bread, as if he is testifying and witnessing the Torah of Moses. But it's the other way around, Yeshua is testified and witnessed by the Torah given Moses. Messiah does not compare his food (Torah) with Moses' as 'the true' food if the bread the fathers ate was to be fed to us for life.

My words.....the true food.....not like the food Moses fed..... So, it seems scripture proves Messiah identifies a separation between the bread from heaven which is Messiah, the Word made flesh from the bread given Moses. One is called 'true food' while the bread (Word) given Moses was not.

John 6:32 “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.​

The Word of God spoken through Messiah states 'it was not Moses' that is 'the true bread from heaven'. Yeshua contrasted (separated) what was given Israel through Moses with what was given Israel through Messiah Yeshua.

Is it any wonder then why Christians do not want to eat of the bread given through Moses? And that attempting to equate or conflate the two would be flat out rejected by Christians according to scripture and the very Words of Messiah himself?

My dear Shimson, I have repeatedly and forcefully stated and restated my opposition to the use of buzz words and slogans. I've used every form of persuasion I can conjure except one.

and you have not asked me why.

Are you so blind to the discussion that you do not want to know my rationale for opposition and caution concerning buzz words and slogans? It isn't use of scripture, which you have managed so well. You haven't addressed my opposition with anything except another machine gun barrage of scripture verses.

You have never asked why I oppose buzz words and slogans. Until and unless you do, you will have no idea what I'm trying to say.......and I think you are a person that needs to know. Your dedication to scripture says so.

Why not ask?

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[chunkofcoal]

I hadn't seen this thread Shimshon. Thank you for putting a link to it in my thread.