Torah and Grace. Everyone Has A Role.

[GospelS]

God uses each one of us in various ways for various purposes. All God’s word given to us is needed.

If you are preaching Grace, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Torah.

And if you are preaching Torah, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Grace.

It is God’s business and He knows what He’s doing. God bless.

 

[solid_core]

God uses each one of us in various ways for various purposes. All God’s word given to us is needed.

If you are preaching Grace, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Torah.

And if you are preaching Torah, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Grace.

God bless.

Its not "Torah vs Grace", its "The Old Covenant" vs "The New Covenant".

These two covenants have some similarities, but many differences, too.

Its chaotic to use them both or make a mixture of their parts. We must live in the new covenant completely.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

God uses each one of us in various ways for various purposes. All God’s word given to us is needed.

If you are preaching Grace, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Torah.

And if you are preaching Torah, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Grace.

God bless.

What do you think about those who preach grace and the Law of Christ, but preach against the keeping of the Mosaic law? Should those who keep the New covenant Law be silent while people are still submitting themselves to the Old covenant Law(in your view)?

 

[Billy UK]

Its not "Torah vs Grace", its "The Old Covenant" vs "The New Covenant".

These two covenants have some similarities, but many differences, too.

Its chaotic to use them both or make a mixture of their parts. We must live in the new covenant completely.

Its not "Torah vs Grace", its "The Old Covenant" vs "The New Covenant".

Amen, Satan tries to mix the old and new covenant together to make a twisted confusion of a covenant when the Scripture clearly states Christians are to live in the new covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV)​

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[GospelS]

What do you think about those who preach grace and the Law of Christ, but preach against the keeping of the Mosaic law? Should those who keep the New covenant Law be silent while people are still submitting themselves to the Old covenant Law(in your view)?

We do not know whom God is speaking to specifically. We need to trust God that He knows what He is doing.

If someone is taking grace for granted and sinning, then maybe God is reaching out to that person to correct their misunderstanding of the grace and help them realize the importance of His commandments. Then let others not oppose that person who is giving the knowledge about God’s commandments.

If someone is legally keeping the Mosaic law, then maybe God is reaching out to that person to correct them and show how they need to depend on His grace in order to keep His commandments. In that case let others not oppose that person who is giving the knowledge about grace.

 

[GospelS]

Its not "Torah vs Grace", its "The Old Covenant" vs "The New Covenant".

These two covenants have some similarities, but many differences, too.

Its chaotic to use them both or make a mixture of their parts. We must live in the new covenant completely.

I was asking not to oppose the grace gospel while preaching the importance of keeping God’s commandments and not to oppose the importance of keeping God’s commandments while preaching about the grace gospel. If we do so then people might only focus either on following the commandments and not depend on grace OR they will take grace for granted and neglect the commandments.

 

[Semper-Fi]

• Luke 11:42 (KJV)
  But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
  
  
• Matthew 23:23 (KJV)
  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
  

 

[Oldmantook]

What do you think about those who preach grace and the Law of Christ, but preach against the keeping of the Mosaic law? Should those who keep the New covenant Law be silent while people are still submitting themselves to the Old covenant Law(in your view)?

Perhaps another option for you to consider is that it is not either one or the other but both. The vast majority of Christians including myself have been taught that the OT law does not apply today as we live in the age of grace. The problem though is that Jesus himself stated he did not come to abolish the law and the prophets but to fulfill them. In other words, Jesus fills to the full the law.
So for example, how does this practically apply to our lives? Jesus taught in the sermon on the mount that whoever looks with lust upon another person commits adultery. His teaching exceeded the law which only addressed the act of physical adultery. So now, we not only refrain from physical adultery but also from committing adultery with our eyes. The latter does not preclude the former as we abide by both sets of commands. Grace makes it possible to follow Torah (the instruction) and also enables us to love God and our neighbor as ourselves as stated in the new covenant.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

God uses each one of us in various ways for various purposes. All God’s word given to us is needed.

If you are preaching Grace, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Torah.

And if you are preaching Torah, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Grace.

God bless.

The power of the Holy Spirit does not exist in The Torah.
The Holy Spirit exists in the believer with no prejudice.
Be blessed and stay healthy.

 

[GospelS]

The power of the Holy Spirit does not exist in The Torah.
The Holy Spirit exists in the believer with no prejudice.
Be blessed and stay healthy.

Thanks for sharing. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that we needed which God gave us through Grace to help us in keeping His Commandments.

 

[HARK!]

The power of the Holy Spirit does not exist in The Torah.
The Holy Spirit exists in the believer with no prejudice.
Be blessed and stay healthy.

(CLV) Ps 51:11
Do not fling me from Your presence, And do not take Your holy spirit from me.

(CLV) Isa 63:10
Yet they rebelled and grieved His holy spirit, So that He was turned to be their Enemy. And He Himself fought against them.

(CLV) Isa 63:11
Yet He remembers the days of the eon, of Moses and His people. Where is He Who brought them up from the sea with the shepherd of His flock? Where is He Who placed among them His holy spirit,

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Perhaps another option for you to consider is that it is not either one or the other but both. The vast majority of Christians including myself have been taught that the OT law does not apply today as we live in the age of grace. The problem though is that Jesus himself stated he did not come to abolish the law and the prophets but to fulfill them. In other words, Jesus fills to the full the law.
So for example, how does this practically apply to our lives? Jesus taught in the sermon on the mount that whoever looks with lust upon another person commits adultery. His teaching exceeded the law which only addressed the act of physical adultery. So now, we not only refrain from physical adultery but also from committing adultery with our eyes. The latter does not preclude the former as we abide by both sets of commands. Grace makes it possible to follow Torah (the instruction) and also enables us to love God and our neighbor as ourselves as stated in the new covenant.

I have both heard and considered this option before brother. When Christ said that he came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill, it must be noted that he said not one jot or tittle will be till all be fulfilled meaning completed or finished. Yahshua came to fulfill(complete) the Old covenant if it still stands then there cannot be a New.
The Ten commandments are eternal, so the act of adultery is attributed to the ten rather than the Mosaic, and the Spiritual Law about lusting with our eyes to commit adultery in our heart is contained in the Law of the Spirit(Law of Christ). So Physical and Spiritual are both clearly shown in the New covenant. When the Ten Commandments were coupled with the Mosaic law life could not come because it was not of Grace, but now with the Ten commandments paired with the Law of Christ life can come through grace.

I appreciate hearing your thoughts and your response brother,
God bless you

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Thanks for sharing. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that we needed which God gave us through Grace to help us in keeping His Commandments.

Yes the two commandments given by Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

(CLV) Ps 51:11
Do not fling me from Your presence, And do not take Your holy spirit from me.

(CLV) Isa 63:10
Yet they rebelled and grieved His holy spirit, So that He was turned to be their Enemy. And He Himself fought against them.

(CLV) Isa 63:11
Yet He remembers the days of the eon, of Moses and His people. Where is He Who brought them up from the sea with the shepherd of His flock? Where is He Who placed among them His holy spirit,

No one had the Holy Spirit dwell in them. The Holy Spirit only fell upon those who He chose to bring truth to Israel.
Blessings

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

We do not know whom God is speaking to specifically. We need to trust God that He knows what He is doing.

If someone is taking grace for granted and sinning, then maybe God is reaching out to that person to correct their misunderstanding of the grace and help them realize the importance of His commandments. Then let others not oppose that person who is giving the knowledge about God’s commandments.

If someone is legally keeping the Mosaic law, then maybe God is reaching out to that person to correct them and show how they need to depend on His grace in order to keep His commandments. In that case let others not oppose that person who is giving the knowledge about grace.

Do we not speak on the Lord's behalf as the Oracles of God to teach others his word(1 Peter 4:11)?

My question though Sister, is about whether it is wrong or right in your view for someone to preach both grace and the Law of Christ(as one together) to those who believe it is necessary to keep the Law of Moses to any degree and for any reason?

 

[GospelS]

Yes the two commandments given by Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings.

Sure. That’s is the truth God gave through you in this moment and I will not oppose that by quoting the other scriptures. That is what I’m trying to do and ask others to understand through this OP. Be blessed.

 

[Soyeong]

God uses each one of us in various ways for various purposes. All God’s word given to us is needed.

If you are preaching Grace, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Torah.

And if you are preaching Torah, please do not oppose those who stress the importance of Grace.

It is God’s business and He knows what He’s doing. God bless.

In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God’s law was given to instruct how to do. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. Strong's defines grace as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His law (Psalms 40:8). So grace is the power of God to overcome lawlessness in our lives and it is by grace that God teaches us to obey His law.

 

[HARK!]

No one had the Holy Spirit dwell in them. The Holy Spirit only fell upon those who He chose to bring truth to Israel.
Blessings

Why did David ask YHWH not to take his Ruach Ha'Kodesh from him?

(CLV) Ps 51:11
Do not fling me from Your presence, And do not take Your holy spirit from me.

 

[GospelS]

Do we not speak on the Lord's behalf as the Oracles of God to teach others his word(1 Peter 4:11)?

My question though Brother is about whether it is wrong or right in your view for someone to preach both grace and the Law of Christ(as one together) to those who believe it is necessary to keep the Law of Moses to any degree and for any reason?

We need to preach while not opposing the truth of any other. If God gave me the ministry work in Torah teaching then I will teach whom ever God directs my message to but at the same time I must be careful that what I’m teaching does not oppose the truth in the gospel of the grace. Similarly anyone can teach grace to those who believe it is necessary to keep Mosiac law but let that teaching not oppose the importance of the commandments.

 

[HARK!]

Amen, Satan tries to mix the old and new covenant together to make a twisted confusion of a covenant when the Scripture clearly states Christians are to live in the new covenant.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.



(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) Dt 30:10
when you hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe His instructions and His statutes, the ones written in this scroll of the law, once you return to Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) Dt 30:11
For this instruction that I am enjoining on you today, it is neither too difficult for you, nor is it too far off.

(CLV) Dt 30:12
It is neither in the heavens for you to say: Who shall ascend to the heavens for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

(CLV) Dt 30:13
Nor is it across the sea for you to say: Who shall cross across the sea for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

(CLV) Dt 30:14
For the word is exceedingly near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, to do it.

(CLV) Dt 30:15
See! I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.

(CLV) Dt 30:16
If you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today, to love Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in His ways and to observe His instructions, His statutes and His ordinances, then you will live and multiply, and Yahweh your Elohim will bless you in the land where you are entering to tenant it.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.




(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.

(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'

(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.



(CLV) Mt 18:16
Yet if ever he should not be hearing, take still one or two others along with you, that at the mouth of two witnesses, or of three, every declaration may be made to stand.

(CLV) Dt 19:15
A single witness shall not rise against a man regarding any depravity or any sin. In any sin which one may sin, the matter shall be confirmed at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.


(CLV) Mt 9:13
Now go, learn what this is: Mercy am I wanting, and not sacrifice. For I did not come to call the just but sinners."

(CLV) Ho 6:6
For I desire kindness and not sacrifice, And knowledge of Elohim rather than ascent offerings.

(CLV) Ho 6:7
Yet they, like a human, trespass against the covenant; There they are treacherous against Me.