Topless/Nude Beach?

[Johnnz]

Someone has called someone elses body unclean?



Irrelevant Conclusion. Someone may or may not be comfortable with public nudity and have nothing wrong with their perception of their body image.


Agreed. But my issue is with the amount of men who have problems with nudity, and the effect is has on them. If you don't see that, a quick glance into the inappropriate content industy will cure it. Do you know there are about 25 million hits to inappropriate content sites each week in America?

My allusion was to the story in Acts of Peter's vision.

I agree with your second statement. But that was not my point. The Christian position is that each person is made in the image of God and is totally acceptable to Him. This view is in total contrast to the societal position where body image so often becomes the basis of a person's self worth. My value derives from the value God places on me, not what I look like.

Re youe last point. The world is full of hedonists - should we forego all pleasures because of them? Or eschew all the trappings of modern life because so many are materialists?

In the midst of a fallen society Christians should exhibit another set of values. I know of people who are nudists and Christians. Can it really be true that they can see naked bodies without sexual arousal? if their claims are true they just might be a lot better off than the huge numbers who struggle just at the sight of a pretty but fully clothed young lady.

John
NZ

 

[Yitzchak]

Question?? The bible speaks about modesty. Does this mean only modesty in dress for the purpose of avoiding sexaul temptation. Or are there possibly other reasons for modesty both in dress and lifestyle??

 

[Yitzchak]

There are also plenty of women who are turned on by seeing a man's chest. Yet we allow men to go topless in public.

The Song of Solomon, which you raised, mentions several parts of a woman's body in sexual terms--hair, eyes, neck, teeth. Should require that women cover their teeth simply because the Song of Solomon mentions them in sexual terms? Of course not!

The fact is that we are sexual creatures so yes also any part of the body could be seen as sexual. However, except for the sex organ itself, a woman's breasts are no more naturally sexual than any other part of her body. Whatever sexual connotation comes as a result of the view taken by our society.

We are dealing with two seperate points. It is one thing to claim that breasts do not arrouse. Another to require dress laws against any arrousal. Some would say that all areas should be covered including a man's chest.

 

[Yitzchak]

This is a verse which says I should be enraptured/infatuated ( can't remember the exact king James word) with my wife's breasts. I will have to search for the reference. It is one of my favorite verses since I can make the case that I am only being biblical when i follow that advice.

 

[isaiah5213]

Question?? The bible speaks about modesty. Does this mean only modesty in dress for the purpose of avoiding sexaul temptation. Or are there possibly other reasons for modesty both in dress and lifestyle??

1 tim 2:9 "i also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, (niv)..."


so what is a nudist beach really about???? vanity?? "no tan lines?"

peace w/inner self?? worship of sun??? glorifying in what God made?? thanking God for how wonderfully and fearfully he made us??? is that what the argument is.??? so the point is, that every year you walk thru a nude beach and look at the people and saying "thank you God??".. or are you saying.. "look how fat that person is.. man, that person is absolutely fried, he is going to get sun poisoning... look at that person who fell asleep... ".... and then, check out those statements.. that is still not glorifying God, or thinking Godly there, because our consequences of our sins show in our overweightness, our crispy selves (vanity/narcissism)... hmmm...

here is a point... being sexually immoral? stealing? lying? those are mastering the basics when we become Christians... that is the easy stuff... the hard stuff is what we work on... lust in our hearts, bitterness, pride, envy, jealousy... so uh, if we can't master a "basic".... like... uh.... "don't go to a nude beach," how are we gonna get the big stuff down???? like, jealousy that the one man's/woman's body looks really good, and why can't i or my spouse look like that... or bitterness & pride "who are they to tell me what the bible says about that stuff?? they are judging me..." or uh... as your are walking thru the beach, the obvious "lust"... "hey, is my husband looking at her???"
i thought about the "namecalling" of the immaturity stuff because we say "no" to nude beaches.. and i realize that that is true.. i am very immature in my relationship with God... i am a child. i am learning right/wrong things.. i am growing to be more like him... and i think that, & i have no problem--in fact, i think God actually smiles at me saying "no nude beaches for me, thank you".. i think he is pleased, because of the barrels of sins that i would fall into. with my God??? i wanna be teacher's pet! why should i be knocked for working to make sure satan doesn't even put is pinky toe in the door??? some of us know our weaknesses.

i mean, goodness!! even the conversations and discussions about it are causing sin!! good grief...

 

[seebs]

I don't see how not going to a nude beach is inherently a basic Christian course of activity. It may be that focus on legalism keeps us from working on our real issues.

That said, I think it's great for people who would have a problem with this (and I'd probably be one) to avoid them. YMMV. Different people need to worry about different things.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think the issue of sexual temptation or lust is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the ways that people sin at a nudist colony. Envy , jealosy, vanity, pride, many issues come to mind. When I think about dressing modestly, I don't so much think about me lusting after some woman. I think about me showing off my body. There is a tasteful way to express ourselves. I am not going to set a list of rules because that would be silly and not my place to do. But whether we are dealing with wealth, intelligence, beauty, etc. It is bad form to flaunt what we have in front of those who have less. For me , the modesty issue is more about the kind of attention we seek and not about sex. I have always told my children to seek higher virtues and the substance in things. Look beyond just the surface. When I was dating and looking for a wife , I saw a lot of women using cleavage and flirting to gain advantage in relationships. There was a lot of bragging about money and status in those circles as well. My observation was it was not so much about sex as it was about manipulation and power struggles. I really have no idea what the motives are of people who go to nudist beaches. But I would guess that many are there for reasons other than sex.

The real root of the issue for me is this. Whatever blessings that I have are given to me by God. My intelligence, my looks, my wealth, etc. I am thankful to God for these blessings and want to use them in a way that is a blessing to people and not in a way that hurts others. Since people are not compelled to go to these nudist beaches and they are presumably voluntary , then the most mature response if it doesn't appeal to me is to not go. I think that there is a reasonable balance in things and a time and place for things also. I am not comfortable being naked in front of strangers.

 

[SirKenin]

I go to nudist colonies to stare at breasts! w00t!!!!!

haha. I couldn't resist.

For example I don't pose for paintings because I am showing off. There is no pride. Nothing. It's not "look at the size of THAT thang". No. None of that. I'm not ashamed of my body for one, for another I appreciate fine art and for a third I'm an exhibitionist, which is exactly what people at nudist colonies and beaches are. If that causes you to stumble, well plain and simple don't do it. Nobody is twisting your arm. But on the other hand you have nothing in your arsenal but a bunch of jibberish that says I can't, so don't try to burden me with your rules.

 

[Svt4Him]

I don't see how not going to a nude beach is inherently a basic Christian course of activity. It may be that focus on legalism keeps us from working on our real issues.

That said, I think it's great for people who would have a problem with this (and I'd probably be one) to avoid them. YMMV. Different people need to worry about different things.

1 tim 2:9 "i also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, (niv)..."

As posted above, there is nothing legalistic about this, any more that it's legalistic to be faithful to your wife, or it's legalistic not to murder.

 

[SirKenin]

In 1 Tim 2:9 Paul's emphasis was on how women should dress in the church. It is the late school of thought that stretched that to other areas of life. So let's give up on trying to stretch it out of proportion.

 

[seebs]

1 tim 2:9 "i also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, (niv)..."

As posted above, there is nothing legalistic about this, any more that it's legalistic to be faithful to your wife, or it's legalistic not to murder.

What's "modest"? Also, note the usage; "I also want". That's nice for whoever wrote Timothy, whether it was actually Paul or someone else, but it is specifically identified as a personal opinion.

Nudity is not necessarily indecent. It often seems that way to us, because we are in the flesh, but there are those who are no longer thus bound. I would ask that they receive me, but not to doubtful disputations; my weaknesses need not hamper them.

(Me? I'm Minnesotan. I don't use public showers, ever; I don't see any reason why nudity in front of people of my sex is any more appropriate than nudity in front of people of the opposite sex, and I dress more "modestly" than most people... But I don't think this is moral, I think this is a personal weakness I am not yet ready to confront.)

 

[Johnnz]

Question?? The bible speaks about modesty. Does this mean only modesty in dress for the purpose of avoiding sexaul temptation. Or are there possibly other reasons for modesty both in dress and lifestyle??

Modesty is much wider than dress and sexual issues. Most of us would prefer an Olympic gold medalist to modestly enjoy their success rather than brag about it. Modesrty has long been regarded as a fundamental Christian value that applies across our lives.

John
NZ

 

[isaiah5213]

modest:

having or showing a moderate estimation of one's talents, abilities, and value. having or proceeding from a disinclination to call attention to oneself; retiring or diffident. observing conventional proprieties in speech, behavior, or dress. free from showiness or ostentation; unpretentious. moderate or limited in size, quantity, or range; not extreme.

modesty: lack of pretentiousness; simplicity

yitzchak stated my point exactly. this discussion is about way way deeper than "skin or no skin"... ??

but another point i pointed out, that no one has mentioned here, is again i ask: does this glorify God?? does this help get others to heaven, this nude sunbathing on the beach w/other nudes... do you do your quiettimes--reading the Bible and praying in the nude??? do you talk to others about God in the nude?? do you take communion in the nude? do you serve others in the nude? if not, what is the sense of arguing that it is "okay"...?? that i am being "legalistic" when that was my point?????

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

do you do your quiettimes--reading the Bible and praying in the nude??? [...]do you take communion in the nude?

I've heard of both of these practices. I don't know how much of a good/bad idea they are, but America today is pretty obsessed with non-nudity, at least compared to the rest of the world and civilizations in the past.

 

[Archivist]

yitzchak stated my point exactly. this discussion is about way way deeper than "skin or no skin"... ??

but another point i pointed out, that no one has mentioned here, is again i ask: does this glorify God?? does this help get others to heaven, this nude sunbathing on the beach w/other nudes... do you do your quiettimes--reading the Bible and praying in the nude??? do you talk to others about God in the nude?? do you take communion in the nude? do you serve others in the nude? if not, what is the sense of arguing that it is "okay"...?? that i am being "legalistic" when that was my point?????

It is my understanding that in the early Church baptism was done in the nude and that there are a few surving frescoes depecting Christians being baptised this way.

 

[EmSchmem]

yitzchak stated my point exactly. this discussion is about way way deeper than "skin or no skin"... ??

but another point i pointed out, that no one has mentioned here, is again i ask: does this glorify God?? does this help get others to heaven, this nude sunbathing on the beach w/other nudes... do you do your quiettimes--reading the Bible and praying in the nude??? do you talk to others about God in the nude?? do you take communion in the nude? do you serve others in the nude? if not, what is the sense of arguing that it is "okay"...?? that i am being "legalistic" when that was my point?????

Often, I have spent my time in the Word nude. I pray in the nude quite often, as my best prayer time seems to be in the shower. My husband and I invite God into our bedroom when we make love, so that it is a loving, serving experience with God still in the center. I don't regulalrly take communion but if my husband and I were together, we would do so nude. My nude-mess or not has a lot more to do with respdect for other people. My reasons for not visiting nude beaches is becuase of my own sin issues.
What I would like to know is how is debating whether or not this thing or that is a sin helping someone who might be reading this get to Heaven?

 

[Svt4Him]

It is my understanding that in the early Church baptism was done in the nude and that there are a few surving frescoes depecting Christians being baptised this way.

And it is my understanding that it was done with the ceremonial baptismal garment which covered the lady and the man from the neck to her knees. Can you tell me when they got rid of this and started going nude, as the last reference to this being used was in the late 1800's? It was what Joseph Smith used to model his undergarments after, which are still worn today.

 

[sf49erfan]

As long as I'm with my wife this isn't a big deal.


If went by myself, huge problem.

 

[snarfywarning]

My husband and I would probably go. I love to be "free" ..he would probbly wear a speedo or something, because he is a little insecure, but I am all about comfort. haha.

We wouldn't go to be spectators or anything, gazing at poor salt-water raw body parts or anything... !! I think we may go just to say that we did!

p.s. We are usually almost ALWAYS nude at home, and would be mostly nude in the outdoors if it wasn't illegal. So if we could, we would be attenind school, church, groceris, all in the buff.

What a sight. hahah.

P.P.S AND! My husbands Face overall, his nose, his teeth, his hands and his chest give me the vapors. He should have worn a halloween mask the entire time we were dating. and stayed about 50 yards away, because even his BO "turned me on."

different strokes for different folks.

Some of you like the boobies and pee-pees, myself? I like my mans stinkyness.

 

[snarfywarning]

That's a cool bit of info. I'll tell my mom that the next time she yaps at me about not having a table cloth.

\


JHAHHAHAHAHAHa. I would have spit up my dirnk if I were drinkingit


"Mom! Grab the table cloth, I am starting to feel aroused!"