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This has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with what is truly right verses wrong. I'm sorry, but I'm sure God is not pleased with his beautiful creation being nude or topless on a public beach or by a public pool. Sorry... this is not about equality.. it could be about rebellion though against living a pure and holy life for Christ...
yep. this touches on an important issue: PRIDE. I believe that's at the core of this rebellion for this "equality" - it's gone past equality to showing off sexual objects that men are visually stimulated by - nevermind showing off 95% of her body.Amen.I believe that we are called to represent Jesus in every area of our lives and at every moment during our lives and yes we are human, but when we do something that we know deep down inside is truly offensive to God because it is not holy or pure to reveal to whoever our intimate body... we need to repent of that sin and overcome that desire to show that part of ourselves. I believe that our intimate body parts were meant for only a husband and wife to share with only each other.
We have a few yes... and technically, all we need is 1 to know what God says. 1 is all I need to read.I agree, just because the world okays this way of thinking and being doesn't mean God okays it. There are so many scriptures that preach against this very thing.
Or pap smears on public beaches... in front of everyone... I mean if the standards are going down... might as well let them go all the way down...
They slap a term of 'equality' on it becuz it's all they can come up with to support the lewd behaviour. The world always comes up with 'viable reasons' to live in the lifestyles they want.This has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with what is truly right verses wrong. I'm sorry, but I'm sure God is not pleased with his beautiful creation being nude or topless on a public beach or by a public pool. Sorry... this is not about equality.. it could be about rebellion though against living a pure and holy life for Christ
You're wrong. It has EVERYTHING to do with equality. This is a secular nation. We don't make laws based on the Bible. The OP was about whether women should be allowed to go topless. Yes, they should. Otherwise, it is discrimination.
THEN IF IT'S ABOUT EQUALITY, WHY NOT GO TO COURT DEMANDING MEN PUT THEIR SHIRTS ON?You're wrong. It has EVERYTHING to do with equality. This is a secular nation. We don't make laws based on the Bible. The OP was about whether women should be allowed to go topless. Yes, they should. Otherwise, it is discrimination.
Men do not have sexual objects in the same place that women do. This is just silly talk now.
Done with this subject. Just annoying.
THEN IF IT'S ABOUT EQUALITY, WHY NOT GO TO COURT DEMANDING MEN PUT THEIR SHIRTS ON?
Why look to MATCH his shirtlessness? See the problem??
That's why this IS about trying to show off nakedness. If women can't grasp that men's bodies are not identical and their chests aren't "sexual objects" that us women get sexually aroused by, then they're alot dumber than I'd expect
We are Christians and are called to holiness. Somehow, I just can't accept that it's okay in God's eyes for people to be on a beach or at a pool topless. I'm not a prude... and I'm very sensual and sexual with my husband and still... in my head, I just don't think it's right for holy men and women of God to reveal their intimate parts of their bodies. I just don't think it's right.
I realize that Europe and some other countries view this nudity thing differently, but like my mom use to say... just because your friends do it, doesn't mean you should...or if your friends jumped off a cliff, would you? Just because the world accepts this way of life doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that it is pleasing to God. Do you honestly believe that God would be pleased with women going topless in a public pool area or on a beach?
I'm sorry, but I just think this is another way in which this world has been corrupted morally speaking. I think there are some who accept this because they think in a reletivism way...
It is silly! Honestly, I have to wonder if they don't realize it as well.Men do not have sexual objects in the same place that women do. This is just silly talk now.
Done with this subject. Just annoying.
It is silly! Honestly, I have to wonder if they don't realize it as well.
But this is the lengths they go to in order to promote their causes. Men don't give birth to babies either - do we scream "inequality"?
Men don't breast feed either - do we demand they have milk glands surgically implanted so they can breast feed the kids while mom's busy at the store? What's next?
We're anatomically different with different biology/hardwiring. The fact that they ignore those differences tells me alot.
They could demand males put on their shirts - they just would rather go naked in public. It's rebellion and pride as I see it.
Romans 1:18-32 spells out this process
Actually they do. Men's nipples are just as sensitive and can be very arrousing to men. What is the difference between male and female breasts? Size? Some men have larger breasts than me and still walk around without a top (although I wish they wouldn't!) Females breasts have been overly sexualized because they are hidden.
perhaps they don't want to wear bottoms either... how do you argue against that?I guess I'm dumb now. Maybe you should actually see my previous post about attitudes.
Perhaps men don't want to have to wear shirts and that's why no one is pushing for that, although you are correct; that would be equality. And maybe women don't want to wear tops for the same reasons men don't. Althought that thought probably never crossed your mind.
perhaps they don't want to wear bottoms either... how do you argue against that?
The point of Paul's teaching on modesty is to draw the attn. AWAY from the outward appearance - the body. What do they want to do? Put it all right back on the body specifically and show it off in pride.
Not only that, we already have the confession of feeling "wierd" while your partner is seeing 1/2 naked women parading by.
That right there is called a "check in the spirit" - an inward conscience of something feeling wrong and awkward with public nudity the first few times experiencing it.
What does James tell us?
James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do good
and does not do it, to him it is sin.
If YOU feel awkward or wrong, or wierd doing it, then it's a problem for YOU. It means YOU are not free to engage in it becuz it's sin for you. God isn't ok with it.
If they all jumped off a bridge with you jump with them too becuz it's their "culture"? Hindu's throw their babies off high balconies for groups of people to catch standing below; would you do that there becuz they do it?
How about female genitalia mutilation if you visted another country?
How about cannibalism elsewhere? I can offer lists. You've already proven by your comment what I suspected.
I'm with you on all your posts. I'm about ready to pack up my luggage & head to some other pastures for rational dialogue as well.One more post
I agree, lets desexualize breasts, so that my husband isn't fascinated with mine anymore, nor will he take pleasure in them in the bedroom... just so that I can feel the air on my breasts(or show them off to other men)
Parts of the body being seen as sexual is a bad thing now? Not in the proper circumstances.
One more post
I agree, lets desexualize breasts, so that my husband isn't fascinated with mine anymore, nor will he take pleasure in them in the bedroom... just so that I can feel the air on my breasts(or show them off to other men)
Parts of the body being seen as sexual is a bad thing now? Not in the proper circumstances.
I don't plan on going in any circles with you - I'm about done with this ridiculous thread.I lied I'm back. READ AND ADDRESS POST 378 or we are going to go in circles forever. And please actually address my points without going off on some random, unrelated tangent otherwise this debate is pointless. I'm tired of repeating myself over and over.
It WAS a big deal to you at first, but after engaging in it, you were ok with it.I faced it with my man in Europe (see previous post). It was a bit weird at first but after a couple days neither he nor I saw it as a big deal.
I don't have a right NOT to see boobs when I'm out in public?You don't have a right NOT to see boobs. That's not a right. And if he can't control himself he should probably get professional help.
yep. this touches on an important issue: PRIDE. I believe that's at the core of this rebellion for this "equality" - it's gone past equality to showing off sexual objects that men are visually stimulated by - nevermind showing off 95% of her body.
Lets get real here, most of this is so they can be at the beach or poolsides, right? But what is the full extent of what they're wearing?
It's nothing more than a woman would wear with her spouse in the bedroom during intimacy; no top & maybe a skimpy pair of undies.
Bikini bottoms today are about equivalent to a pair of girls panties! (sometimes less w/ those thongs) -
this isn't ONLY about toplessness, it's seeing a woman completely naked except for a tiny little piece of underwear cloth on the bottoms.
they call this "modest"? Good Lord.
The only place that's considered the term: MODEST is a porn flick.
It's NOT godly and it's indecent. (I am FAR from prudish myself - I'm not into the Amish type stuff and think things can look 'sexy' without exposing parts
We have a few yes... and technically, all we need is 1 to know what God says. 1 is all I need to read.
I about spit out my drink when I read that - I just took a sip lol
They slap a term of 'equality' on it becuz it's all they can come up with to support the lewd behaviour. The world always comes up with 'viable reasons' to live in the lifestyles they want.
But in the end, the world isn't our judge, God is, and He doesn't judge by the world's standards, He uses holy standards based on righteousness. I think people who focus on the world have no idea the holiness of God.
A verse comes to mind:
1 Peter 4:18
Now “ If the righteous one is scarcely saved,
Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”
Actually they do. Men's nipples are just as sensitive and can be very arrousing to men. What is the difference between male and female breasts? Size? Some men have larger breasts than me and still walk around without a top (although I wish they wouldn't!) Females breasts have been overly sexualized because they are hidden.
I guess I'm dumb now. Maybe you should actually see my previous post about attitudes.
Perhaps men don't want to have to wear shirts and that's why no one is pushing for that, although you are correct; that would be equality. And maybe women don't want to wear tops for the same reasons men don't. Althought that thought probably never crossed your mind.
Why would God be displeased with anyone being topless on a beach in the South of French on beach full of topless women, anymore then he would be displeased if I wore a bikini or a t-shirt and shorts, it isn't a sexual thing.
I go to that part of the world frequently my family live there. It isn't done to say look at me... if I was the only person on that beach that was topless while everyone else was clothed or in bathing suits, that would be immodest and attention seeking, if I did it with the intention of wanting to use my nudity to have sex then that would displease God, that I can understand. An arguement can be made about only showing your body to your husband but I could never marry that sort of man, the type to judges people by their sexuality and therefore will judge my family... I would rather be single.
And yes an arguement could be made the prostitution is legal in Amstedam and using prostitutes for sex is not going please God the difference being it is an actual sexual act with is impure and using someone for that purpose.
However I don't believe that God would condemn a system that works to give prostitutes better protection by legalising brothels. Prostitutes are a part of most major cities, how society looks after those women is important, Jesus treated prostitutes with love and compassion. The drug that is legal in Amstadam is hash, it can be harmful but it is less harmful than many prescription drugs and is a natural and affective pain killer.
My mother taught me to be a grown up, when it comes to the human body and she taught me not to be a philistine when it came to art and culture. I have also grown up in London which is multi-cultural and was taken to art galleries alot. Nobody told me, not to look at paintings of naked men and women, so I am not offended by it. If God wanted me to be different he would have given me different parents.
I am a pretty liberal person, I don't pretend not to be, it doesn't mean that I love Jesus any less, though the majority of people here well condemn me to hell even if I had never been topless on a beach because some will call it relativism. I rejected fundermental Christianity, when I found it turned my stomach... I would normally have ignored this thread because the arguement was so predictable, that America fundermentalists would be the ones that object, whilst the Europeans that have been to any beach have no problem with it.....c est la vie
from post 378
Karisma:
I don't have a right NOT to see boobs when I'm out in public?
If that's the case, then none of us have any right Not to see people's genitals in our faces either. In that case, everybody should be forced to have nudity anywhere and everywhere in public.
This is one of the most bizarre statements I've read in a long time (and I've seen plenty).
And since I read that you stated you smoked pot and find nothing wrong it it, I see no point in continuing w/ you further. The bible is clear on drug taking (pharmakia) as well.
But, hey, to many they don't care what it says anyways.
Are people REALLY shoving either boobs or genitals in Nadiine's face?She still ignores my post...
~VICTORIOUS!!!~
Well again, what others do in other cultures does NOT make it "RIGHT", does it?
Unless street drugs become "right" becuz Amsterdam legalizes them & it "works for them" over there....
/.../
Toplessness is not "Modesty"; it's not even modest for males as a matter of fact.
Modesty is to be clothed in a manner that isn't drawing attn. to the body itself - as we've said earlier, even people wearing burlap sacks can be alluring with body gestures, eye contact, speech/sexual inuendo, etc.
/../
And if the men aren't aroused, then that pretty much tells me that they've gotten SO accustomed to open nudity, that they're desensitized to normal arousal - and just like pornography, it takes more and more graphic visualization for stimulation.
Nudity is still wrong and maybe they SHOULD be turned on, but the toplessness is dulling their sensitivity.
Lastly, laying out today is beyond dangerous - if these sunworshippers are so fond of stripping in the sun, they can enjoy their leatherized skin in the near future and I hope they're getting regular check ups at the dermatologist for skin melanoma's.
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