Topic in General Theology about Theotokos Hymns

~Anastasia~

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Oh how so?


:)


Since you asked nicely, I will tell you. I have not mentioned this in CF, but oh well. :)


This spring I was going to classes and everything a very full calendar at our Greek Orthodox Church offered - except Sundays. I had never been to a Divine Liturgy, or an Orthodox Church on Sunday.

My husband was exceedingly suspicious of the Orthodox Church, and had been threatening to "forbid" me from going. I'm not sure what I would have done if he had done that. I do try to respect him - and sometimes it is necessary that I do so far more than I think is "fair" ... but give up what I was finding in faith? I'm not sure I could have done that.

Anyway, so as a compromise, I was going with him to church on Sundays. He didn't have a church picked out, and it seemed he was refusing to choose one. We visited a new church every week. We had been needing a home church for years.

So ... I made one very cautious prayer - I did not wish to be an offense to God, and I wasn't convinced that asking was ok. So while covering that prayer in prayer, I did ask for the intercession of the Theotokos in this matter.

You know what happened? IIRC it was a few hours later, my husband approached me and said he wanted to visit the Orthodox Church! He had outright refused before that point, and wasn't even wanting to let me continue.

As it worked out, that Sunday he didn't want to go to church at all (he was sunburned) so I got to attend Divine Liturgy on a Sunday for the first time on Palm Sunday - it was a packed Church, a full choir - and I have never in my life felt so much as though I was standing in heaven with the flurry of angels and all that is going on there surrounding me. (I've felt like I'd been at God's throne before, but this really eclipsed anything else I'd ever experienced.)

From that moment on, I could not go anywhere else but the Orthodox Church. My husband did come the following week. He was actually very positive about it at the time.

That was profound for me though. If you knew my husband and how "anti-Catholic" he was/is, that's a minor miracle right there.

He's still struggling. I'm not sure he's ready or if he ever will be to become Orthodox. His theology is already Orthodox, but the forms are a stumbling block to him. He was unable to find satisfaction in his chosen churches after that though - Communion is too important to him. They only have it a few times a year.

He asked how often we have communion in an Orthodox Church. ^_^

Anyway - that was such a profound and unexpected and immediate change of circumstance in my home, and it has been wonderful for me. I can't help but think it had to be answered prayer.

It has caused him some stress, and that distresses me. But he's doing MUCH better now - he's out of town working and I remembered a very devout friend I have in Dallas who has been taking him to various churches and Bible studies, and he's getting a nice refreshing. So I'm thankful. That friend of mine happens to also be the ONLY one that supports my choice to attend an Orthodox Church. He questioned me about why I wanted to go, what I found there, and how it had changed me, and then he said that "I said all the right things" and he was happy for me.

So .... I pray this can be good. I'm not sure what God's plan/path is, but I try to stay on it, step by step. That has always been my goal.

But I think maybe the Theotokos helped whisper in His ear just a little on this one. ;) Maybe.
 
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~Anastasia~

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This is no accident! The saints are all alive in Christ and part of his Church. When you enter into the Church you are united with them and all other believers!

The Church is .... its so hard to put into words.

I'm not sure how many are like this, but I feel SO blessed. So many in the Church there became like family to me, so quickly. I've lost most of my own family (and I miss them!) ... even so many of the younger generations so many have died.

But in Church, I feel like I have a family again. The people are just SO wonderful. I can't believe how quickly I came to love them, and how deeply. It makes it easier, living here, where I am cut off by circumstance or by death from most of the people I love.

The Saints do seem to be a part of that. It's like this huge, extended family, all congregating around the Church, and I am surprised at the level of love shared.

I think I am not saying this well. But what I mean is that you are right. I do believe the Saints are alive, and it is wonderful to have them as a tangible part the family of God along with us.
 
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George95

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:)


Since you asked nicely, I will tell you. I have not mentioned this in CF, but oh well. :)


This spring I was going to classes and everything a very full calendar at our Greek Orthodox Church offered - except Sundays. I had never been to a Divine Liturgy, or an Orthodox Church on Sunday.

My husband was exceedingly suspicious of the Orthodox Church, and had been threatening to "forbid" me from going. I'm not sure what I would have done if he had done that. I do try to respect him - and sometimes it is necessary that I do so far more than I think is "fair" ... but give up what I was finding in faith? I'm not sure I could have done that.

Anyway, so as a compromise, I was going with him to church on Sundays. He didn't have a church picked out, and it seemed he was refusing to choose one. We visited a new church every week. We had been needing a home church for years.

So ... I made one very cautious prayer - I did not wish to be an offense to God, and I wasn't convinced that asking was ok. So while covering that prayer in prayer, I did ask for the intercession of the Theotokos in this matter.

You know what happened? IIRC it was a few hours later, my husband approached me and said he wanted to visit the Orthodox Church! He had outright refused before that point, and wasn't even wanting to let me continue.

As it worked out, that Sunday he didn't want to go to church at all (he was sunburned) so I got to attend Divine Liturgy on a Sunday for the first time on Palm Sunday - it was a packed Church, a full choir - and I have never in my life felt so much as though I was standing in heaven with the flurry of angels and all that is going on there surrounding me. (I've felt like I'd been at God's throne before, but this really eclipsed anything else I'd ever experienced.)

From that moment on, I could not go anywhere else but the Orthodox Church. My husband did come the following week. He was actually very positive about it at the time.

That was profound for me though. If you knew my husband and how "anti-Catholic" he was/is, that's a minor miracle right there.

He's still struggling. I'm not sure he's ready or if he ever will be to become Orthodox. His theology is already Orthodox, but the forms are a stumbling block to him. He was unable to find satisfaction in his chosen churches after that though - Communion is too important to him. They only have it a few times a year.

He asked how often we have communion in an Orthodox Church. ^_^

Anyway - that was such a profound and unexpected and immediate change of circumstance in my home, and it has been wonderful for me. I can't help but think it had to be answered prayer.

It has caused him some stress, and that distresses me. But he's doing MUCH better now - he's out of town working and I remembered a very devout friend I have in Dallas who has been taking him to various churches and Bible studies, and he's getting a nice refreshing. So I'm thankful. That friend of mine happens to also be the ONLY one that supports my choice to attend an Orthodox Church. He questioned me about why I wanted to go, what I found there, and how it had changed me, and then he said that "I said all the right things" and he was happy for me.

So .... I pray this can be good. I'm not sure what God's plan/path is, but I try to stay on it, step by step. That has always been my goal.

But I think maybe the Theotokos helped whisper in His ear just a little on this one. ;) Maybe.


That's an awesome story. Thanks for sharing, I always love stories like these. :)
 
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ArmyMatt

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The Church is .... its so hard to put into words.

I'm not sure how many are like this, but I feel SO blessed. So many in the Church there became like family to me, so quickly. I've lost most of my own family (and I miss them!) ... even so many of the younger generations so many have died.

But in Church, I feel like I have a family again. The people are just SO wonderful. I can't believe how quickly I came to love them, and how deeply. It makes it easier, living here, where I am cut off by circumstance or by death from most of the people I love.

The Saints do seem to be a part of that. It's like this huge, extended family, all congregating around the Church, and I am surprised at the level of love shared.

I think I am not saying this well. But what I mean is that you are right. I do believe the Saints are alive, and it is wonderful to have them as a tangible part the family of God along with us.

you actually summed it up rather well. there is a Greek Church near my hometown (I usually attend an Antiochian parish when I visit my folks, because it is slightly closer and I had friends from college who went there). well, one summer I decided to check out the Greek Church. I went a few Sundays, went to some of Fr Alex's Bible studies, etc, before being asked to go back to the Antiochian Church. being stupid, I did not inform Fr Alex that I was going back to the Antiochian Church. well, after about a week there was a message on my folks answering machine from him, asking how I was, if I was okay, any prayer requests that he could do, the parish schedule so that I knew what was coming, etc. my dad noted that no priest that he has ever met when I was Episcopalian showed that concern over a kid that he had just met a few weeks before.
 
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~Anastasia~

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you actually summed it up rather well. there is a Greek Church near my hometown (I usually attend an Antiochian parish when I visit my folks, because it is slightly closer and I had friends from college who went there). well, one summer I decided to check out the Greek Church. I went a few Sundays, went to some of Fr Alex's Bible studies, etc, before being asked to go back to the Antiochian Church. being stupid, I did not inform Fr Alex that I was going back to the Antiochian Church. well, after about a week there was a message on my folks answering machine from him, asking how I was, if I was okay, any prayer requests that he could do, the parish schedule so that I knew what was coming, etc. my dad noted that no priest that he has ever met when I was Episcopalian showed that concern over a kid that he had just met a few weeks before.

Thanks, Matt.

You know what? I had seen the Orthodox Church as being primarily driven by theology and Tradition. So I expected to "learn" the Church by studying, reading, seeing the visible aspects of Tradition, and learning what they meant, and so on.

What I am finding instead that the Orthodox Church is understood (by me at least) by living it. I sometimes look at the words I type here in CF, trying to explain what I am learning or why I see things a certain way. And through objective eyes, I think my words probably mean next to nothing to most people. I try, but it's hard to explain. On the other hand, what I gain from participating in the Church - the liturgy and being part of the congregation - all aspects of it - THOSE are where the real learning has taken place.

That is why I begin to love the Saints (the reason for my post above). That is why I feel I have a family. That is why I regard the priest as a man who has a great degree of spiritual wisdom.

I didn't expect the Orthodox Church to be so much about what I "feel" and what I "experience" ... better words might be "living the faith" but it is something that becomes a part of me through a channel other than the intellectual comprehension of theologies.

Very unexpected. But delightfully rich!
 
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When we were Catholic or Anglican, NOBODY gave a rat's behind if we disappeared for a year or more! About six months after my chrismation and my godfather and I had that major argument smack-down, after I left the Orthodox Church for about six weeks, my priest was emailing me regularly asking me to come back, trying to bring me home. People WERE asking about us. People cared. I hear ya.

you actually summed it up rather well. there is a Greek Church near my hometown (I usually attend an Antiochian parish when I visit my folks, because it is slightly closer and I had friends from college who went there). well, one summer I decided to check out the Greek Church. I went a few Sundays, went to some of Fr Alex's Bible studies, etc, before being asked to go back to the Antiochian Church. being stupid, I did not inform Fr Alex that I was going back to the Antiochian Church. well, after about a week there was a message on my folks answering machine from him, asking how I was, if I was okay, any prayer requests that he could do, the parish schedule so that I knew what was coming, etc. my dad noted that no priest that he has ever met when I was Episcopalian showed that concern over a kid that he had just met a few weeks before.
 
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~Anastasia~

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When we were Catholic or Anglican, NOBODY gave a rat's behind if we disappeared for a year or more! About six months after my chrismation and my godfather and I had that major argument smack-down, after I left the Orthodox Church for about six weeks, my priest was emailing me regularly asking me to come back, trying to bring me home. People WERE asking about us. People cared. I hear ya.

I missed only one Sunday - I wasn't feeling well a week ago. And I wasn't able to go to very many of the extra services during the 1st two weeks of August.

People asked about me, and I think the priest was afraid I was experiencing burnout or something, considering some comments he made in class.

Not burnout. Not at all. I dearly wished I could have been there.

But people notice. And I notice when people are missing too, and ask when they get back. If anyone plans to be out of town or has something coming up, they let everyone know when, and when they will be back. Now I understand why. :)
 
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~Anastasia~

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Yeah, that one felt like a bomb dropped! I have to say though, they really have been a lot more polite than is usual. But I'm also not seeing a few posters I had grown used to seeing, so that may be part of the reason for the relative calmness.

You should come in more often though. :) For that matter, just stay around. ;)
 
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ArmyMatt

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just to clarify, the Episcopal priest and his wife that I grew up with really care for me, but mostly because I was their son's best friend growing up. and don't get me wrong, I know many that I have met are very friendly and polite, but I have yet to see the kinda overflowing love that I have in Orthodoxy. when I went to St Tikhon's for their Memorial Day Pilgrimage, Orthodox folks that I had never met before, or only met on facebook, all knew that I was the Army guy who was trying to go to STOTS, that the Army kept my wife and me apart, and they came up offering prayers and support. there were bishops that wanted to know if they made some calls if that would help.
 
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~Anastasia~

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just to clarify, the Episcopal priest and his wife that I grew up with really care for me, but mostly because I was their son's best friend growing up. and don't get me wrong, I know many that I have met are very friendly and polite, but I have yet to see the kinda overflowing love that I have in Orthodoxy. when I went to St Tikhon's for their Memorial Day Pilgrimage, Orthodox folks that I had never met before, or only met on facebook, all knew that I was the Army guy who was trying to go to STOTS, that the Army kept my wife and me apart, and they came up offering prayers and support. there were bishops that wanted to know if they made some calls if that would help.

That's good to hear. Since I've really spent just about all of my time in one parish, I wondered if it was really typical and if I could expect to find it in others. I've found real warmth among Orthodox I have met online as well, but it's still good to hear from someone with much broader experience than mine that it really is true.

I can see how the particular theology of the Church, the thoughts in the Liturgy, and more can lead to that kind of love, but I wasn't absolutely sure.

Thanks. :)
 
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ArmyMatt

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That's good to hear. Since I've really spent just about all of my time in one parish, I wondered if it was really typical and if I could expect to find it in others. I've found real warmth among Orthodox I have met online as well, but it's still good to hear from someone with much broader experience than mine that it really is true.

I can see how the particular theology of the Church, the thoughts in the Liturgy, and more can lead to that kind of love, but I wasn't absolutely sure.

Thanks. :)

I know others might have different experiences, but that really is all I have seen. and I have been to OCA, Greek, Carpatho, Russian, Ukrainian, and Antiochian parishes and monasteries. I have always felt at home. I know it's cliche, but Orthodoxy really is one big family.
 
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