Top law enforcement officials say the biggest domestic terror threat comes from white supremacists.

[Ana the Ist]

Yes we could. Anybody who favours the opposition is anti-government, but let us not stray from the point.

Well that's odd...because despite a lot of violence, they aren't deemed a threat.

Perhaps 'a couple of articles' is not enough articles. I don't suggest you should read more; it would become depressing. But there is a thread in the American Politics forum which does it for you; it is thorough and I believe trustworthy, not compiled by partisan nodding donkeys as so much here is.

I don't know how I would be able to use that thread in this discussion. If you aren't presenting the evidence, responding to it is pointless .

Yes, of course.

Well by that logic...Black Lives Matter would be a black supremacist organization by association since they have worked hand in hand with black supremacist groups designated by the SPLC.

 

[Whyayeman]

Well that's odd...because despite a lot of violence, they aren't deemed a threat.

There is nothing odd about being opposed to a government. It is part of any democratic society. I rather think you oppose the current government.

I don't know how I would be able to use that thread in this discussion. If you aren't presenting the evidence, responding to it is pointless .

It was an invitation to read it. It shows evidence that a proportion of the people involved in the illegalities of January 6th had connections with far right groups who espouse violence, something you have affected to doubt.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There is nothing odd about being opposed to a government. It is part of any democratic society. I rather think you oppose the current government.

I disagree with some of what they do...

I wouldn't say that in general I oppose the government. *edit*

It was an invitation to read it. It shows evidence that a proportion of the people involved in the illegalities of January 6th had connections with far right groups who espouse violence, something you have affected to doubt.

Well we're moving away from "white supremacist" to "far right"....

If you're trying to paint any far right group as "white supremacist"....just say so....then we can discuss why that's wrong.

Or we can discuss how the media has perhaps influenced your view.

Or we can discuss reasons why the media is pushing that narrative.

 

[KCfromNC]

It's genuine. I've seen evidence that maybe half a dozen were possibly white supremacists (as in, not neo nazis, but perhaps they dressed up as Hitler one Halloween or used the "ok" sign)....but I honestly haven't kept track....

What number would make you start to care?

 

[KCfromNC]

I'm curious - doesn't the phrase "Black Lives Matter" strike you as rather racist?

Not really. Do you think black lives don't matter?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What number would make you start to care?

Well if you're going to call it a white supremacist group....how about a simple majority?

 

[Toot La-Rue]

Not really. Do you think black lives don't matter?

No. Do you think white lives don't matter? What about red lives? Yellow lives? Blue lives?

Why the intense focus on just black lives? Isn't that discriminating against other racial groups?

Discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit:

Racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior...
...an individual action or behavior based upon or fostering such a doctrine; racial discrimination...
...racial or ethnic prejudice or intolerance.

 

[KCfromNC]

Well if you're going to call it a white supremacist group....how about a simple majority?

A majority of what?

 

[KCfromNC]

No. Do you think white lives don't matter? What about red lives? Yellow lives? Blue lives?

Hint - the phrase is "black lives matter". If you interpret that as "only black lives matter and everyone else's existence is totally meaningless", we're adding quite a bit that isn't there. Not sure what the motivation would be to do that, but I don't think it is useful in understanding the actual phrase.

Why the intense focus on just black lives? Isn't that discriminating against other racial groups?

Discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit:

Racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior...
...an individual action or behavior based upon or fostering such a doctrine; racial discrimination...
...racial or ethnic prejudice or intolerance.

Given the definitions you've posted, obviously the answer to your question is no. With that out of the way, any other questions?

 

[Whyayeman]

And yet top law enforcement officials say the biggest domestic terror threat comes from white supremacist groups, not from Black groups.

 

[Ana the Ist]

A majority of what?

People in the mob you're referring to here...

A mob of them attacked the US Capitol a few months ago. Can't believe you missed it - it was all over the news and everything.

 

[KCfromNC]

People in the mob you're referring to here...

I don't see why they would need to be a majority of the group to be the biggest threat. If only 1/3rd were White Supremacists and the rest just unorganized opportunists with random backgrounds, that 1/3rd would still be the biggest cohesive subset of the mob without being the majority.

So again, I'm left wondering if there's an actual criteria which makes sense here or if the thread of posts was just an attempt to distract from the issue.

 

[KCfromNC]

And yet top law enforcement officials say the biggest domestic terror threat comes from white supremacist groups, not from Black groups.

Must be totally political pandering. Unlike when the ex-president said there were "very fine people" taking part in a white supremacist march in Charlottesville, of course.

 

[Strathos]

Hint - the phrase is "black lives matter". If you interpret that as "only black lives matter and everyone else's existence is totally meaningless", we're adding quite a bit that isn't there. Not sure what the motivation would be to do that, but I don't think it is useful in understanding the actual phrase.

At first, it seemed baffling to me that so many conservatives misinterpreted the slogan "Black Lives Matter" as meaning 'only black lives matter', instead of the much more sensible reading 'black lives matter, too'.

Then I realized that it's probably due to them projecting their own attitudes on those they disagree with. In other words, they assume it means 'only black lives matter' because they themselves believe that 'only white lives matter'.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't see why they would need to be a majority of the group to be the biggest threat. If only 1/3rd were White Supremacists and the rest just unorganized opportunists with random backgrounds, that 1/3rd would still be the biggest cohesive subset of the mob without being the majority.

So again, I'm left wondering if there's an actual criteria which makes sense here or if the thread of posts was just an attempt to distract from the issue.

You characterized the group as white supremacists....

That wasn't my choice of words.....it was yours.

If we're talking about a minority of people within the larger group....why would you characterize the group by that minority?

I can think of several reasons why someone might want to do this. One reason would be to slander the rest of the group with a negative label that demonizes them. One reason would be a blatant attempt to misinform people about the size and scope of whatever threat white supremacists actually pose. The simplest reason would be if someone is racist against white people they can broad brush any white person as a white supremacist because a minority of them are....and most of the people there appear to be white.

Now, to be clear, I'm not saying any of those reasons are the reason why you categorized the mob that way. Those are all shallow and arguably immoral reasons for such a blatantly false generalization. We may disagree on many things KC....but I honestly don't think you wish to demonize the entire group because of some irrational hatred of white people.

I also don't think you would accept such a negative generalization about a Black Lives Matter protest. I forget the exact statistic (so obviously I'm paraphrasing here ) but it goes something like...

One third of all black males 15-35 are either in jail, on probation, or have a warrant for their arrest.

Now imagine a Black Lives Matter protest where 10 thousand black men and women march for whatever reason. Would it be fair to describe the mob of protesters as "criminals" simply because a significant number of them are?

 

[Whyayeman]

'White supremacists present the gravest terror threat to the United States, according to a draft report from the Department of Homeland Security.'

- from a report by Homeland Security issued in August 2020. The composition of the mob in and around the Capitol on January 6th 2021 is not relevant.

 

[atpollard]

Strange that the National Terrorism Advisory System Bulletin (issued by Homeland Security to all Industry Partners and Government Agencies) dated May 14, 2021 makes no mention of White Supremacists.

Summary of Terrorism Threat to the U.S. Homeland
The Secretary of Homeland Security has issued a new National Terrorism Advisory System (NTAS) Bulletin regarding the current heightened threat environment across the United States. The Homeland is facing threats that have evolved significantly and become increasingly complex and volatile in 2021. These threats include those posed by domestic terrorists, individuals and groups engaged in grievance-based violence, and those inspired or influenced by foreign terrorists and other malign foreign influences. Social media and online forums are increasingly exploited by these actors to influence and spread violent extremist narratives and activity. Such threats also are exacerbated by the impacts from the ongoing global pandemic.​

 

[Belk]

Strange that the National Terrorism Advisory System Bulletin (issued by Homeland Security to all Industry Partners and Government Agencies) dated May 14, 2021 makes no mention of White Supremacists.

Summary of Terrorism Threat to the U.S. Homeland
The Secretary of Homeland Security has issued a new National Terrorism Advisory System (NTAS) Bulletin regarding the current heightened threat environment across the United States. The Homeland is facing threats that have evolved significantly and become increasingly complex and volatile in 2021. These threats include those posed by domestic terrorists, individuals and groups engaged in grievance-based violence, and those inspired or influenced by foreign terrorists and other malign foreign influences. Social media and online forums are increasingly exploited by these actors to influence and spread violent extremist narratives and activity. Such threats also are exacerbated by the impacts from the ongoing global pandemic.​

Whom do you think comprises domestic terrorists, the first item on their list? Do they really have to call each group out by name in order for people to know what they are talking about?

 

[Whyayeman]

The Homeland security statement is follows on from their finding of August 2020. It goes on:

'Ideologically-motivated violent extremists fueled by perceived grievances, false narratives, and conspiracy theories continue to share information online with the intent to incite violence. Online narratives across sites known to be frequented by individuals who hold violent extremist ideologies have called for violence against elected officials, political representatives, government facilities, law enforcement, religious or commercial facilities, and perceived ideologically-opposed individuals' (My emphasis)

Who attempted to subvert an election? Who stormed the Capitol? Who erected a gibbet outside the Capitol? Who called for the hanging of the Vice President? Ideologically motivated violent extremists - that's who.

 

[Whyayeman]

From the same National Terrorism Advisory bulletin (May 14th 2021):

'... mass-casualty Domestic Violent Extremist (DVE) attacks linked to racially- or ethnically-motivated violent extremists(RMVEs) have targeted houses of worship and crowded commercial facilities or gatherings. Some RMVEs advocate via social media and online platforms for a race war and have stated that civil disorder provides opportunities to engage in violence in furtherance of ideological objectives.' (My emphasis)