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Featured Too much focus on the blood?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jair Crawford, May 4, 2018.

  1. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    It seems to me that Jesus was fulfilling the role of the High Priest visiting and inspecting the Temple when He "cleansed the Temple" as recorded in the Gospels. But notice what's missing?

    The priest will then perform the purification offering and make reconciliation for the person needing purification from their uncleanness. After that, the entirely burned offering will be slaughtered. 20 The priest will offer up the entirely burned offering and the grain offering on the altar. In this way, the priest will make reconciliation for the person, and they will be clean again.~Leviticus 14:19-20
     
  2. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    So, how was Adam's Original Sin specifically atoned or forgiven.?
     
  3. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    JOHN.1:1 & 14 = 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. &
    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
    .
    .
    1TIMOTHY.3: =
    16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

    God was manifested in the flesh,
    Justified in the Spirit,
    Seen by angels,
    Preached among the Gentiles,
    Believed on in the world,
    Received up in glory.
    .
    .
    JOHN.3: = 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    .
    .
    HEBREWS.1: =
    The Son Exalted Above Angels
    5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

    “You are My Son,
    Today I have begotten You”?

    And again:

    “I will be to Him a Father,
    And He shall be to Me a Son”?

    6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

    “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

    7 And of the angels He says:

    “Who makes His angels spirits
    And His ministers a flame of fire.”

    8 But to the Son He says:

    “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
    A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
    9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
    Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
    With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

    10 And:

    “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
    And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
    11 They will perish, but You remain;
    And they will all grow old like a garment;
    12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
    And they will be changed.
    But You are the same,
    And Your years will not fail.”

    13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

    “Sit at My right hand,
    Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?

    14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
    .
    .
    HEBREWS.5: =
    A Priest Forever
    5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him:

    “You are My Son,
    Today I have begotten You.”

    6 As He also says in another place:

    “You are a priest forever
    According to the order of Melchizedek”
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  4. royal priest

    royal priest debtor to grace

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    First of all, I apologize for the length of this post, but here is a connection that is very important to understand. The OT sacrifices were established by God because of the need for atonement of sin.
    The OT has so much to say regarding this, but to keep it short and hopefully simple, I refer only to the instance found in Leviticus chapter 16.
    The Jewish tabernacle, or temple had a room called the Most Holy Place. Only the high priest was allowed admittance and inside that room was the Ark of the Covenant. The cover of the ark was called the 'mercy seat'. All of this is carefully prescribed by God in Exodus and Leviticus. Once a year, on the Day of Atonement, the High priest would sacrifice an animal then cover the mercy seat with the blood of the sacrifice.
    The ritual sacrifice associated with The Day of Atonement is a striking picture of the atoning work of Jesus Christ. Again, this is by design to point the Jews to their need for atonement for their sin. Consider that ritual as described in Leviticus 16:
    Two goats are involved. One is slaughtered and it's blood is sprinkled on both the alter and the mercy seat. Then the priest would place his hands upon the head of the other goat and pronounce the sins of Israel upon the animal.
    Leviticus 16:21-22, "And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins. And he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness. The goat shall bear all their iniquities on itself to a remote area, and he shall let the goat go free in the wilderness."
    Here we see in this ritual two important aspects of atonement for sin. One goat represents the sinners need for a sacrifice to die in his stead. The other goat represents the sinners need to have his sin imputed to the account of another. This provision of a sacrifice is a striking testimony to the God who is perfect in His justice, wisdom, love, and mercy.
    When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He was acting the part of the sacrifice that God offers: perfect and sufficient in every way to suffer and die in the place of wicked men. And to bear their sins away as far as the East is from the West. Psalms 103:12
    Hence John the Baptist's declaration at his first sight of the Jesus, the Messiah:
    John 1:29, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
    There's a lot more to it, but I hope that little bit proves helpful.
     
  5. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    I have not seen Televangelist for a while I thought they were all sowing the seed of faith so that you can be rich.
     
  6. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

    He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

    Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

    13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”[fn]
    17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

    And they sang a new song, saying:

    “You are worthy to take the scroll,
    And to open its seals;
    For You were slain,
    And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
    Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
     
  7. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Maybe one man living his entire life correctly, and putting his love of the Father over and above al
    worldly concerns and desires is all that it takes to justify the creation of man in the first place.
     
  8. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I agree with the Franciscans, who have never believed in the Atonement *theories*.


    I don't see "atone[ment]" mentioned in the passage you used to support this assertion:
    It's already been posted that atonement means "cover". God did something better. He "takes away" the sin of this world.

    "So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God".~Hebrews 7:19
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  9. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

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    That is an interesting point.

    It wasn't Jesus' literal blood that was being drunk (sorry Catholics ;) ) and not his literal blood that saves, but his figurative blood which is essentially transfused into us when we are given a new heart by God. So his blood saves when we take it into us, but its not literal blood in the cup so its not literal blood that saves.
     
  10. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Well.. not just any man, but God enfleshed.
     
  11. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    @discipler7 I don't understand the point you'e trying to make in post #63.
     
  12. gomerian

    gomerian Other Sheep

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    I caught Impe's act a few months ago, and I still can't get it out of my head... which is why I mentioned it. Nothing works that guilt-and-give muscle better than a vat of blood.
     
  13. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    You may be interested in reading the book, Making All Things New by Benjamin L. Gladd, Matthew S. Harmon, and G. K. Beale.

    An excerpt is online here---->https://www.wtsbooks.com/common/pdf_links/9780801049606.pdf

    I do think that there's hope in Christ's death...and not that all our hope lays far off in the future---at His second coming. As it's written in this book:

     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  14. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    Please read my posts #30 and #59.

    We shall be saved from hell when we die(= resurrected or raptured by God/Jesus) only if we recognize the fact that we need to repent of our inborn or inherited Adamic Original Sin, which has already been atoned by the blood of Jesus Christ that was shed on the Cross.
    .
    .
    1JOHN.1 & 2: = 1: 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. .......

    2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but for the whole world.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  15. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I have. I also responded by saying that what you used to support your argument doesn't have "requirement" or "atonement" there (or I'm missing it). You can re-read the discussion here---->
    Too much focus on the blood?

    You'd said:

    ....and that's when I asked you where you're getting that from. You've not answered that, in my opinion, because I don't see "requirement" as per the Mosaic Law (nor do I see what Christ did as "atonement"....because as it says in Hebrews 7:19, that may nothing perfect).

    What I *do* see is an "undoing" or "reversal" of the curse of death and also two systems that have run parallel (the Levitical Priesthood and the Priesthood of Christ, which is superior)...just as you already posted here:


     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  16. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    My belief on Christ's death and resurrection aligns with the Greek Orthodox church, which states:

     
  17. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Is it possible you just mean Adam's sin? (not anything related to "Original") .....

    As written in God's Word and usually rejected and/or forgotten by most in the world:
    "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness".
     
  18. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    This is under the Law (separate from and contrasted to the Royal Priesthood of Christ).....which Hebrews says:





    ....but He did fulfill the Law by allowing the shedding of *His* own blood (but that was a *gift* not a requirement, as I see it, and as it's written in the text).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  19. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I think this is an interesting (and relevant) read. In part it says:

     
  20. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Its not all yet when ever I had to test a spirit .. there is something they can not ever say "by the blood of Jesus we are washed".. As God said.. live is in the blood
     
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