I thank you for responding and trying to help me understand. I'm still not following the concept but I'm trying. Scripture speaks on this only briefly and IMO I think it's over analyzed to the point of this becoming something quite different from what was given. In Acts, we see the gift actually employed. In the letter to the Corinthians we read Paul correcting improper usage. It seems when the event happened in Acts the gift was used to help the unbeliever understand the Gospel. What was heard was the Gospel presented in the native tongue of the people. Many modern practitioners seem to presume one man spoke and they all heard different tongues all at the same time. But reading the account carefully doesn't confirm this. St. Peter speaks saying 'these men are not drunk...". Does this mean that as they all spoke they all spoke the same tongue and the hearers miraculously hears or that different men were speaking a tongue unknown to them and different men speaking different tongue?
I'm thinking the thing that amazed the people was that simple uneducated men from Galilee (Mainly tradesmen and fishermen had suddenly became linguist speaking a real language they didn't speak the day prior. And we have the word utterance translated from the Greek word ἀποφθέγγομαι. It has a very distinct meaning: To proclaim plainly. I see the gift in Acts two as the same gift spoken of in the epistle but I see Paul correcting a misuse of the gift which has caused confusion as they all spoke the same language and it wasn't needed to speak plainly in the hearers native tongue. So why would a newcomer think they were crazy? If everyone in a group spoke English and I decided to speak Spanish with my native tongue being English it would not seem a sane choice. It would also not help those hearing without a translator. It would only edify me knowing I had the ability.
So I'm wondering why we'd be given utterance (the ability to speak or proclaim plainly) in an unknown tongue unless one or more present used that tongue as his main language? Why would I be given the language of angels to speak to mankind?
As to the prayer issue. Pray as you think you should and do it sincerely. If the language you speak in is real, God will understand. If it's babble, He'll know that as well.
I have another question: If one is not gifted by God with the gift of tongues, how would her spirit pray? Or could her spirit pray?
Please don't be offended. I know there is more to this than I understand. I know there is a reason people practice this that goes beyond my understanding. If I've offended I ask your forgiveness. I know we all take our beliefs personal. Whether I agree or not is not important. That I understand you is important to me.
In love
Lilly
Thank you, Lilly,
No, you are very kind, and not at all offensive.
And I would be happy to explain as much as I am able. I can't explain much theologically - I did read the Scriptures about it, but not study deeply. I have mostly my experience (and I know in much of the Church that is not a thing to be trusted - and I would agree - but my circumstances of coming to the Lord were kind of unusual and through His mercy He helped me anyway. I do certainly check everything with Scripture).
I can't say for sure, but I think there are perhaps two different things going on. I think it is possible that in Acts 2, these tongues were known languages given as a sign to those travelers for the sake of them accepting the Gospel.
In the other times it speaks of tongues after conversion/baptism/tongues (or in the case of Cornelius' household, before baptism) ... I am not sure. It may be a known language, or I think very possible it may also be a prayer language.
I think prayer language is an unknown tongue. It may be a different gift than what we see in Acts. 2. The Scriptures say that it edifies the believer, that mysteries are being spoken to God, that the mind is unfruitful. There is mention that it involves giving thanks to God, and if done in public it should always be interpreted.
In Paul's letters to the churches, I am not sure. I assumed (I may be wrong) that people were speaking in their prayer language, and because no one understood, it was fruitless to the body, but if someone interpreted, it could edify the body. And he also said it should be done in order, 2 or at most 3 at a time, so I get the idea there may have been a lot of unruly speaking going on.
But if it was an unknown tongue, one could pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal the interpretation, I am thinking, since interpretation of tongues is one of the listed spiritual gifts in 1 Cor. I think maybe that was the expectation in church. I have no experience with that. When I have heard a public tongue, I always pray for an interpretation. I sometimes get very vague impressions, and they are sometimes somewhat related to what is said, but only very vaguely. And sometimes I get nothing at all.
OH WAIT!!! I just remembered, the first time I ever heard a tongue in church! I had forgotten ... I was scared to death, LOL. I did pray for understanding of what was going on, because while I had prayed in tongues myself, I was always very restrained and this church was not - it was a bit of a shock for me! And I DID get words in my mind that time, and they DID match what someone interpreted. Not word for word, but the thing that was said was the same. It was about praying for Israel. I had forgotten that for some years. But ... at no other time have I ever known the interpretation of a tongue, though I pray each time I hear one. (It is a fairly rare thing in churches I attend though, so it has been probably less than 20-30 times at the very most over the years.)
I wish I could answer your real question, about someone's spirit praying. I don't know.
I touched all of this by reading about contemplative prayer. Madame Guyon's book was the one I was reading at the time. I also read books about surrendering to God - speaking of absolute surrender. I think somehow it was important to me to be waiting silently on God - be still and know that I am God. And also to be completely and fully surrendered to Him. This is the way He brought me into things. And having a heart that would lose itself in worship of Him.
And intercession is also related to all of this. That may be something of the answer to your question about one's spirit praying. I used to pray all the time for other people. For a while it was amazing, how I saw answers to prayer. I do know that I myself have to be right with God before He will lead me to pray extensively for others.
First I pray with understanding, based on what people ask me to pray. I focused on that for some time. Then something else began to happen. I would sometimes know without someone telling me what they needed prayer for. I once knew of a secret sin someone was hiding, and I couldn't figure out why God would reveal that to me. I was horrified that I might have to confront them about it! But that was not it. Instead, I was to pray. I prayed for that person for some months (he moved away, and I kept praying) and one day I knew it was time to stop praying for that. I don't know if he stopped sinning, or what, but I knew not to pray anymore. Sometimes I pray for someone, and I think I will ask for this, then that, then something else, and somewhere in my "list" my lips speak some words I did not plan to say - something I did not know about them. And then one day, I found out about a grievous sin against some innocents, and I was burdened about it. I started to pray for the children, and something happened I did not understand at the time. That was when it was like a huge, heavy weight pressed down on me, and I could only kneel on my face on the floor, and that was the deep groaning, I wept, I felt like I was being wrung out, and it felt almost like a string was drawn from inside me that went upward. I don't know. It went on for some time, and I just kept being weighted, and feeling great spasms of groaning - then very suddenly it stopped. It was very strange to me. That, I think, is the Holy Spirit praying through me. It is very intense. It happened at other times too. Often it was in prayers for children, but not always. Usually I think I am praying a normal prayer, and I just begin to pray, and that comes on me. That is the one thing I do not control. It just happens. I suppose I could probably resist it, but it doesn't seem to be the thing to do, so I don't.
I'm not sure if any of those is my spirit praying. Anything that is unusual - I tend to attribute to the Holy Spirit. I never thought to ask? I will pray, since you asked, and if I get any insight, I will share it with you.
I think the other prayers are all intercession. But I think praying in the unknown tongue/prayer language is much more likely to be praise or thanksgiving.
I do wish I could answer your question. You seem such a kind person, and I want to be able to tell you ... it's just not something I know the answer to. I'm not sure if any of all these details can help, but if they can, you are welcome to them.
I feel kind of strange about posting this. I have shared more details here in this thread than I have ever done before, and this post is even more. But my heart is touched to help you with what you want to understand in any way I can, so I hope it can help somewhat.
Thank you for your kindness in posting, and be blessed.
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Paul mentions that when one speaks in tongues theyOriginally Posted by Digout
