Tongues and Acts 2

[atpollard]

Do you have scripture to back the claim that Acts 2 was unique, and that we shouldn't expect to be raising people from dead?

Read what Acts 2 reports that the people said they heard and compare that to other scriptures on ‘tongues’. Do they describe the same thing or not?

How about listing 3 people raised from the dead after Pentecost? You would think a ‘common’ occurrence of such importance (raising the dead) would be mentioned more than once.

I never claimed that you should not expect God to raise the dead … I claimed that two unique miracles (Lazarus and Pentecost) were “unique miracles” and not repeated in scripture as they appeared in those special events.

 

[ARBITER01]

Read what Acts 2 reports that the people said they heard and compare that to other scriptures on ‘tongues’. Do they describe the same thing or not?

Yes they do describe the same thing.

There is nothing in scripture that identifies two different gifts of tongues, just different operations such as prayer or corporate speaking.

 

[atpollard]

Yes they do describe the same thing.

There is nothing in scripture that identifies two different gifts of tongues, just different operations such as prayer or corporate speaking.

No, they do not describe the same thing.

Acts 2 is a miracle to confirm the new covenant, not a “gift of tongues”.

Fortunately for both of us, it is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you (and not my job). So I have stated the facts and I leave you in His far more capable hands to open your eyes to the difference between the “gift of the Spirit” and the “miracle of Pentecost”.

God bless you and keep you.

 

[ARBITER01]

No, they do not describe the same thing.

Acts 2 is a miracle to confirm the new covenant, not a “gift of tongues”.

Fortunately for both of us, it is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you (and not my job). So I have stated the facts and I leave you in His far more capable hands to open your eyes to the difference between the “gift of the Spirit” and the “miracle of Pentecost”.

God bless you and keep you.

Sorry, the gift was by "utterance of The Holy Spirit" which requires utterance by The Holy Spirit of the gift of interpretation also. They go hand in hand in the corporate assembly.

It is a common occurrence in my Assemblies of GOD church. So yes, the gift described in acts 2 is no different from what Paul describes in Corinthians.

GOD changes not.

 

[atpollard]

Sorry, the gift was by "utterance of The Holy Spirit" which requires utterance by The Holy Spirit of the gift of interpretation also. They go hand in hand in the corporate assembly.

It is a common occurrence in my Assemblies of GOD church. So yes, the gift described in acts 2 is no different from what Paul describes in Corinthians.

GOD changes not.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medesand Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tonguesspeaking of the mighty deeds of God.”​

A “common occurrence in my Assemblies of GOD church” … A group of people all speaking at once with multiple foreign language speakers all “hearing them speak in his own language” … doubtful.

 

[ARBITER01]

A “common occurrence in my Assemblies of GOD church” … A group of people all speaking at once with multiple foreign language speakers all “hearing them speak in his own language” … doubtful.

Do you operate in the gifts?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

No, they do not describe the same thing.

Acts 2 is a miracle to confirm the new covenant, not a “gift of tongues”.

Fortunately for both of us, it is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you (and not my job). So I have stated the facts and I leave you in His far more capable hands to open your eyes to the difference between the “gift of the Spirit” and the “miracle of Pentecost”.

God bless you and keep you.

I'm a bit late to this party, what exactly about Pentecost was a miracle?

 

[atpollard]

I'm a bit late to this party, what exactly about Pentecost was a miracle?

LOL … what about Pentecost was NOT a miracle.

However, I was specifically referencing a group of people all speaking together … as another group of listeners each heard something different … from “drunken” gibberish to each foreign speaker hearing their native language being spoken (even though all were apparently fluent enough in the local language to communicate with Peter with no difficulty).

My one and only point is that Acts 2 is NOT what Paul describes in his letter to Corinth. Acts 2 is something uniquely different. A “miracle”.

It is only “Gift of Tongues” centered glasses (like those worn by groups that claim everyone must speak in tongues in order to be saved) that force the “gift of tongues” into the events of Acts 2. The gifts of the Spirit stand on their own merit without being forced into scripture where they do not appear.

 

[atpollard]

Do you operate in the gifts?

I dislike vague “Christian-speak” where words have different meanings to different people.
I live and believe this:

1 Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. 2 You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works allthings in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
​

I also believe that the parts in BOLD are the most important parts to remember.

• The manifestations of the Spirit are given for the COMMON GOOD … not the glory of the individual.
• The Spirit distributes as HE wills.

As defined by Scripture (above) … Yes, I operate in the gifts.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

LOL … what about Pentecost was NOT a miracle.

However, I was specifically referencing a group of people all speaking together … as another group of listeners each heard something different … from “drunken” gibberish to each foreign speaker hearing their native language being spoken (even though all were apparently fluent enough in the local language to communicate with Peter with no difficulty).

My one and only point is that Acts 2 is NOT what Paul describes in his letter to Corinth. Acts 2 is something uniquely different. A “miracle”.

It is only “Gift of Tongues” centered glasses (like those worn by groups that claim everyone must speak in tongues in order to be saved) that force the “gift of tongues” into the events of Acts 2. The gifts of the Spirit stand on their own merit without being forced into scripture where they do not appear.

Perhaps but have you considered that in Acts 10, the Holy Spirit "fell upon" the Gentiles in Cornelius' house and Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” And how did Peter know they had received the Spirit?

45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

So clearly even Peter identified tongues in Acts 10 as the same event of Acts 2 for the Gentiles received just as they had. Now I'm not going to speak about the whole "you have to speak in tongues to be saved bit". I don't think anyone here is remotely claiming that, in fact I think Oneness theology is banned in this subforum.

But scripture clearly states that Pentecost was the gift of tongues for Peter himself makes that distinction in Acts 10. It takes quite a bit of meandering to think otherwise.

 

[ARBITER01]

I dislike vague “Christian-speak” where words have different meanings to different people.
I live and believe this:

1 Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. 2 You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works allthings in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
​

I also believe that the parts in BOLD are the most important parts to remember.

• The manifestations of the Spirit are given for the COMMON GOOD … not the glory of the individual.
• The Spirit distributes as HE wills.

As defined by Scripture (above) … Yes, I operate in the gifts.

Oh really, what gifts do you operate in, be specific.

 

[ARBITER01]

I'm a bit late to this party, what exactly about Pentecost was a miracle?

I think he lacks experience in how The Holy Spirit operates the gifts in the assembly. Maybe he has a prayer tongue,... maybe,... but a lot of folks will make wrongful statements like he is when they have never experienced The Holy Spirit's ministry use of the gifts.

His statements raise red flags nonetheless.

 

[atpollard]

Oh really, what gifts do you operate in, be specific.

I think he lacks experience in how The Holy Spirit operates the gifts in the assembly. Maybe he has a prayer tongue,... maybe,... but a lot of folks will make wrongful statements like he is when they have never experienced The Holy Spirit's ministry use of the gifts.

His statements raise red flags nonetheless.

Your question and tone raise ‘red flags’ for me as well. Your tone implies hubris about your ‘tongues’ … which we both know are no known foreign language (as in the book of Acts).

“I will not share my glory.”

However, I did not enter this conversation to create strife, so I will exit it to avoid strife.

 

[ARBITER01]

Your question and tone raise ‘red flags’ for me as well. Your tone implies hubris about your ‘tongues’ … which we both know are no known foreign language (as in the book of Acts).

“I will not share my glory.”

However, I did not enter this conversation to create strife, so I will exit it to avoid strife.

This forum is for people that actually believe and operate in the gifts, not for those that took two steps and quit.

 

[jiminpa]

Read what Acts 2 reports that the people said they heard and compare that to other scriptures on ‘tongues’. Do they describe the same thing or not?

How about listing 3 people raised from the dead after Pentecost? You would think a ‘common’ occurrence of such importance (raising the dead) would be mentioned more than once.

I never claimed that you should not expect God to raise the dead … I claimed that two unique miracles (Lazarus and Pentecost) were “unique miracles” and not repeated in scripture as they appeared in those special events.

So that's a "no." You don't have scripture.

 

[tturt]

What matters is what Scripture says.

Jesus said
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Mark 16

Yes God does these today.

 

[jiminpa]

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medesand Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tonguesspeaking of the mighty deeds of God.”​

A “common occurrence in my Assemblies of GOD church” … A group of people all speaking at once with multiple foreign language speakers all “hearing them speak in his own language” … doubtful.

It doesn't say that those were the languages spoken. It says that those were the languages heard. You are imposing your understanding on scripture.

 

[atpollard]

This forum is for people that actually believe and operate in the gifts, not for those that took two steps and quit.

Contrary to the opinion of far too many, “tongues” is not the only gift. I am NOT a cessationist and I do operate in the gifts given me … by the Holy Spirit as He wills … for the good of the body rather than the glory of any attention-seeking individual.

For every church (local body) that conforms to Paul’s instructions on tongues, there are two that trample Paul’s warnings under foot.

As an elder and teacher in a Pentacostal Church, I assumed my opinions would be permitted in this forum. If this is a “you must speak in tongues” forum, then that should have been made clearer.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The Biblical view is far too often ‘in the minority’ in this age.

Watching videos featuring tongues during services conducted by Chuck Pierce, I notice that the tongues spoken are not expressive, articulate, fluent languages. They are mainly the "sha ba ba ba" kind, which to me sounds totally false. And when Pierce gives the interpretation, he uses a Biblical phrase word salad but actually says nothing of any substance. I have heard Kenneth Copeland speaking tongues on video and is so blatantly false - it seems that he is totally cheapening something that is a sacred form of prayer to God. Because Paul discourages tongues spoken without interpretation, I am of the opinion that most tongues spoken without interpretation is often made up gibberish and not true tongues. True tongues is exactly consistent with what Paul taught about it in 1 Corinthians 14. False prophecy and false tongues go together.

 

[sunlover1]

I dislike vague “Christian-speak” where words have different meanings to different people.
I live and believe this:

1 Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. 2 You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works allthings in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
​

I also believe that the parts in BOLD are the most important parts to remember.

• The manifestations of the Spirit are given for the COMMON GOOD … not the glory of the individual.
• The Spirit distributes as HE wills.

As defined by Scripture (above) … Yes, I operate in the gifts.

You're right, people do have different meanings for words. But it's not 'vague Christian speak" because there is only ONE Truth.
So its actually a lack of revelation in one or both of the parties involved.


It means what it means.
You may be wrong.
I ALWAYS go to God for illumination
if i find myself in such a conversation.
Because if you have a blind spot..
well, you're then blind to it.
None of us have arrived.
We're all in the same boat