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Tongues and Acts 2

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by Dietrich Johnson, May 11, 2022.

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  1. Dietrich Johnson

    Dietrich Johnson Member

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    I am seeking to understanding the Charismatic perspective regarding the scriptural basis for speaking in tongues that are not a spoken language (German, Chinese, Spanish, etc). In the Acts 2 context it is clearly a spoken language, where those Galileans blessed with the gift could immediately and miraculously speak the mother-tongue of other languages (Acts 2:3-10).

    I also have a second question, which is: from the Charismatic perspective if there are reasons outside of scripture to support the argument for speaking in tongues that are not a spoken language (i.e. a mother-tongue from other countries).

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
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  2. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not all Charismatics believe in the "tongues of angels " which is how this type you are speaking of is justified. Groans , which is also used in scripture, is another example of justifying this phenomenon. I , as a Charismatic, believe it can only be actual languages not understood by the speaker but clearly understood by a hearer who then in turn interprets. My view is of course in the minority.
    Blessings!
     
  3. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    The Biblical view is far too often ‘in the minority’ in this age. ;)
     
  4. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    List of Biblical purposes for tongues includes:
    -Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
    -Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
    -Warfare language - Tongues directly aimed at demonic strongholds
    -Prophetic language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
    -Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
    -Praise language - Magnifying the Lord in worship tongues
    -Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not learned by the speaker). (Saint Steven gave permission to use this basic list.).

    There's diversities of tongues (I Cor 12).

    There's over 6500 languages and some are unusual including clicking sounds. But God isn't limited to those.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
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  5. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Is this an argument against our theology here?
     
  6. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No. The OP`er also listed this question under Pentecostal which has a specific denominational view. This forum casts a wider net including all Charismatics.
    Blessings.
     
  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Just a “point of information”, but Acts 2 was not a typical manifestation of the gift of “tongues” (any more than Lazarus rising from the dead was typical for how God gives “life” to those that believe in Him.)

    If you read the chapter (Acts 2), you will find that the Holy Spirit caused the believers to speak … some heard nonsense and thought they were drunk, others heard THE GROUP speaking in their native language. Note, however, that each person heard EVERYONE speaking a different language. It was a unique miracle to establish a unique event (the outpouring of the promised Holy Spirit dwelling in the believers) and jump-start the CHURCH among Israel … as the event was later repeated to affirm the CHURCH among Gentiles.

    (The church at Corinth was more “typical” than Acts 2).
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  8. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    The answer is just Him. Just ask the Father according to Luke 11:13. See what the Father does :) For me there was no internet no real confusion about the holy Spirit and then tongues. I don't remember hearing you have to speak in tongues vs no you don't. They just asked if I wanted it.. I said yes. They prayed a very short prayer then said "thats it you got it". No one said a word. I get up go to sit down and tongues just came out.

    Does it do anything when I pray allot in tongues? Yes every single time. Christ said we will cast out demons (do we? Hmm) speak with new tongues.. GOD said that not for a few but all. See its not God saying tongues has to be a world language man says this ;)

    Tongues like every other thing from God is for any believer. There are Baptist filled speaking in tongues and Catholics on and on. So for me as far as I know its been unknown.. there is more about this in my life I have never shared with anyone by my wife. Most of my life ..I just believe. One time He told me to do something I questioned it. He came right back with "when GOD tells you to do something you don't question it you just do it" To that I smiled and said yes sir. How I always treat HIs word. Be it John 3:16 and Luke 11:13.
     
  9. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Any believer can speak in tongues given to them by the Holy Spirit.

    Tongues are a sign - To unbelievers By believers

    "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:" "And these signs shall follow them that believe; ...they shall speak with new tongues; (I Cor 14:22 and Mark 16:17)
     
  10. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    The specific scripture governing this,...

    1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but by the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

    This section of scripture is applicable to acts 2 since GOD changes not.

    The gift of tongues is not a language from the mind, it is from our spirit, hence why is not understandable. It is our spirit communicating with GOD, not with other people.

    Acts 2 tends to make one think that they heard the gift of tongues in human languages, but the gift was operating by utterance of The Holy Spirit, and that required an utterance of the interpretation gift in human languages to bring understanding to the message they heard.

    All the gifts were poured out, not just tongues.
     
  11. jiminpa

    jiminpa Senior Member Supporter

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    That is imposing an assumption and an inductive precedent to Acts 2. 1) The Bible doesn't specify that the disciples spoke in known languages, just that the hearers heard in their own languages. It does not have to follow that the languages spoken were known languages. The Bible doesn't actually say either way. 2) Assuming that the disciples were speaking each of the languages that were heard, (imagine hearing an individual language in that cacophony), it doesn't restrict God from operating the way Paul describes, "speaking to God and not man," in 1 Corinthians 14.
     
  12. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    You start your question on a false premise, or a faulty one anyway. Scripture doesn't state the church on Pentecost spoke those languages. It only says they spoke in other tongues and the people heard their native language. It's entirely possible that the tongues on Pentecost was an otherworldly language that the Spirit caused those in the audience to hear in their native language. There are actual testimonies even today of this happening. The Holy Spirit is not limited to our understanding of things.
     
  13. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Since they were tongues that were uttered by The Holy Spirit, there was a follow up utterance by The Holy Spirit in the gift of interpretation,.... that gift operates in human languages, and it is not limited to just speaking in our own language.

    And,.... since this event was stated as prophesying by Peter when he quoted Joel, the gift of prophesying must of been operating also.

    Prophesying and interpretation operate in human languages, and they can be operated by The Holy Spirit in languages not our own. It's somewhat rare but valid.

    All the gifts were poured out at Pentecost, not just tongues like a lot of folks like to think.
     
  14. jiminpa

    jiminpa Senior Member Supporter

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    Except that Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14 that one who speaks in a tongue speaks to God and not to man, and no one understands. So, that is not the Biblical view.
     
  15. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    I've often thought about Peters speech on that day. He did mention prophecy in fulfillment so yes it must have been more than just tongues. A lot like in Acts 19 with the Ephesians Paul encountered how they spoke in tongues and prophecied
     
  16. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    List of Biblical purposes for tongues such as
    from Acts, I Cor, and Eph includes:
    -Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
    -Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
    -Warfare language - Tongues directly aimed at demonic strongholds
    -Prophetic language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
    -Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
    -Praise language - Magnifying the Lord in worship tongues
    -Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not learned by the speaker)
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  17. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Yep.

    And for the event to be prophesying, tongues with interpretation is equal to prophesying, along with the gift of prophesying.
     
  18. jiminpa

    jiminpa Senior Member Supporter

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    Do you have scripture to back the claim that Acts 2 was unique, and that we shouldn't expect to be raising people from dead?
     
  19. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Acts 2:1-13

    2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    The Crowd’s Response
    5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”

    13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

    Verse 8 says that they each heard in their own language. Each one, individually, heard every word spoken in their own language. Now, there were 120 believers in the room at that point, plus the multitude who were there who were experiencing the miracle of hearing in their own native tongues. The thing is that each person individually heard it in their own language, I believe, from every person who was speaking in tongues. What I mean is that if I, speaking English, was there and another speaking Swahili was there, and we went up to Peter and listen to him speak, I would hear it in English whereas the other person would hear the same thing in Swahili. This was not a miracle of speaking a language that they didn't know as much as it was a miracle of the hearers hearing the person in their own native tongue.

    They came there curious and open, whereas the mockers came unbelieving, with the purpose of finding stuff to use against them. This is why they would only hear tongues as indiscernible nonsense. God did not grant them the miracle of hearing the tongues in their own language.

    J. Rodman Williams in Renewal Theology: Systematic Theology from a Charismatic Perspective puts it like this, "...One may advance the argument that Pentecostal tongues must have been foreign language because according to Acts 2:6 "each on heard them speaking in his own language," and 2:11, "we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God" (NASB). What is said in these passages, however is not the hearing OF one's own language but the hearing IN one's own language. Such being the case, at the same moment that "other tongues" were spoken through the Holy Spirit, they were immediately translated by the same Holy Spirit into the many languages of the multitude. Closely related is the gift of interpretation that Paul describes in 1 Corinthians (12:10, 30; 14:5, 13). This gift follows a tongue and is given so that hearers can understand in their own language. In any event the tongues spoken at Pentecost and thereafter were not foreign languages but pneumatic speech-the speaking by the Holy Spirit through the mouths of human beings." He says in the footnotes, "Hence there is both a miracle of speech-other, different, spiritual tongues-and a miracle of understanding: each made possible by the Holy Spirit." He is also stating that the Holy Spirit acted as his own interpreter. I kind of disagree and say that the Holy Spirit granted each one who heard in their own language the gift of interpretation for that moment, but that's really splitting hairs.

    I will also add that there was a seemingly large multitude there at that moment on the day of Pentecost. This wasn't a time as we have now where if you disagree with someone you can expect nothing more than maybe a block on Facebook or a laugh react for your dissenting opinion. This was a time where if you had the nerve to disagree with someone, you could likely have your teeth knocked out. In a huge crowd, this would be almost certain and could easily result in death. For the few dissenters to sit there and say in the midst of the crowd, "Oh! They are only drunk! Listen to them babbling nonsense!" would be very dangerous for themselves, I have a hard time believing that they would say something like that unless they were absolutely convinced and had proof right there that they were right. Not even the Pharisees did so for fear of starting a riot until they heard Jesus claim that He, as the Son of Man, would be sitting at the right hand of God and coming on the clouds of Heaven in Matthew 26. Only then did they publicly accuse Him. I have a hard time believing that the dissenters would be so bold to do that in the midst of a crowd that disagrees with them unless they were literally hearing nothing but nonsense because the Spirit didn't open their ears to hear.
     
  20. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    I think it was Oscarr on here that would say that the tongues spoken on that day were somehow miraculously translated for everyone by The Holy Spirit. I always disagreed with that.

    Anyone that has been in a Pentecostal/Charismatic church setting where The Holy Spirit was operating the gift of tongues knows that when an utterance is given everyone waits for the utterance of the interpretation gift by Him also. That's what was happening on that day.

    The interpretation gift operates in human languages by The Holy Spirit as well as the gift of prophesying, it only makes sense that these gifts were operating also thereby making the event prophecy as Peter declared.
     
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