Toleration Doesn't Cut Both Ways

[stamperben]

Good to know where people stand, for liberty or for security

Or for a secure liberty.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Good to know where people stand, for liberty or for security

Yep, I stand for greater liberty for gay people. Gays and straights should be equal in their ability to serve in the military without having to stay in the closet. Seems to be working fine so far.

 

[MachZer0]

Or for a secure liberty.

 

[Illuminaughty]

I believe integration worked pretty good at insuring liberty as well.

 

[MachZer0]

Yep, I stand for greater liberty for gay people. Gays and straights should be equal in their ability to serve in the military without having to stay in the closet. Seems to be working fine so far.

The trouble is that you seem to stand for it at the expense of the liberty of others

 

[Illuminaughty]

The trouble is that you seem to stand for it at the expense of the liberty of others

How is that?

 

[IanCG]

Someone answer me this.

How are gays any different than atheists when it comes to a chaplain's rights?

 

[MachZer0]

How is that?

Well. let's take your view on integration which was forced. One method was school busing which denied parents the freedom to send their kids to schools in the neighborhood where they lived. Many of those parents specifically chose those neighborhoods because of the schools. Liberty denied to provide security to others

 

[Tangled24]

With all the horrible problems in the military right now, I can't believe this debate is still going on.

The Army does not tell chaplains what to say and what not to say.

I have never ever met a chaplain (and being a combat medic, I met A LOT both before and after DADT) that has ever felt this way. I mean really. I just haven't. I have asked them if they felt this way. They always said no.

I had gay friends in the military that went to the services and talked with the chaplains. There was never a problem for either.

Just saying. Its dumb to kick people out of the military for religion, sexuality, etc. It simply just is. The only people I have ever had problems with gay people (which, still have yet to meet a chaplain) were bullies in general.

Anyway, this is where I stop replying. Only because my voice and my personal experience is not going to be enough to change someones mind who has already made their mind up.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Chaplains are good men. I've been one before, albeit not for the military.

 

[Paradoxum]

Actually, it is.

Apparently there is. Obamacare drove that point home to us[/QUOTE]

I showed that it isn't with my analogy to freedom. I can't help if all you can reply with is some complaint about Obama.

 

[TScott]

Good to know where people stand, for liberty or for security

This isn't an argument about Liberty, this is about people doing their job, and people refusing to do their job.

Look, a Chaplain has a difficult job. One of their main tasks is to somehow help a soldier reconcile killing people, sometimes innocent people with his or her faith. I've always thought that a military Chaplain's job in wartime is one of the most trying and difficult jobs there is.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Well. let's take your view on integration which was forced. One method was school busing which denied parents the freedom to send their kids to schools in the neighborhood where they lived. Many of those parents specifically chose those neighborhoods because of the schools. Liberty denied to provide security to others

Right to go to the public school next to you? Is that in the Bill of Rights? I'm surprised you would even go after integration. You should convince Romney to attack it as part of his campaign strategy.

 

[Illuminaughty]

So how does allowing gay people to serve in the military infringe on the rights of other people? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you are right about integration and it was an unnecessary infringement on peoples right to go to public schools near them. How would my support of equality between gays and straight in the military infringe on anyone rights?

 

[RedDead1981]

Can chaplains tell female soldiers they don't belong in the military, so long as that falls in line with their religious beliefs?

 

[MachZer0]

This isn't an argument about Liberty, this is about people doing their job, and people refusing to do their job.

Look, a Chaplain has a difficult job. One of their main tasks is to somehow help a soldier reconcile killing people, sometimes innocent people with his or her faith. I've always thought that a military Chaplain's job in wartime is one of the most trying and difficult jobs there is.

It seems more to be about government defining a minister's job

 

[IanCG]

It seems more to be about government defining a minister's job

I agree, the government shouldn't be hiring ministers.

 

[MachZer0]

I agree, the government shouldn't be hiring ministers.

No surprise there

 

[RedDead1981]

It seems more to be about government defining a minister's job

The military should have a little more latitude with respect to its job descriptions and restrictions placed on its servicemen/women. There are a great many rights that are denied, in one way or another, to soldiers. Part of the job.

 

[MachZer0]

The military should have a little more latitude with respect to its job descriptions and restrictions placed on its servicemen/women. There are a great many rights that are denied, in one way or another, to soldiers. Part of the job.

You don't tell an 11B he can only squeeze the trigger with his pinky finger and you don't tell the medic he has to use band-aids to treat a sucking chest wound, nor should you tell a chaplain how to interpret the Bible