Toleration Doesn't Cut Both Ways

[MachZer0]

Except that it isn't though is it.

Actually, it is.

Also you don't tackle my analogy to freedom. There isn't freedom for anti-freedom.

Apparently there is. Obamacare drove that point home to us

 

[MachZer0]

"you have nothing to worry about, there is no god"?

The chaplain should be able to counsel the soldier as to the truth, the actual truth, of what the Bible says.

 

[MachZer0]

Which is your right, up to a certain point. If your child hits you, you do not have the right to kill her, or him, as taught in the Bible. Nor do you have the right to kill homosexuals, as is taught in the Bible.

But the point here, the point of the criticism in the OP is this: If an employer hires a Minister, should the employer have the right to restrict what the Minister preaches? Of course that employer has that right. If a Baptist Church hires a Minister who decides to start preaching out of The Book of Mormon, I think they would have every right to restrict him from doing so. If the Military hires a Minister, they too have every right to restrict the Minister from preaching or counseling soldiers counter to Military policy.

Does the employer have a right to change his policy after the fact and then dictate what the minister preaches? If so, in the case of the military, then the chaplains should be let go after their enlistments are up as the military engages in a program of social engineering

 

[IzzyPop]

Actually, it is.

Apparently there is. Obamacare drove that point home to us

How does the ACA promote the freedom of anti-freedom?

 

[TScott]

Does the employer have a right to change his policy after the fact and then dictate what the minister preaches? If so, in the case of the military, then the chaplains should be let go after their enlistments are up as the military engages in a program of social engineering

Employers have the right to change their policy anytime they want. Chaplains are all officers and can resign their commission any time they want.

 

[TScott]

TScott, are you aware of the difference between old testament and new testament and that the Mosaic law of the OT is not applicable to Christians?

Then all you have is St. Paul speaking out against it, and his basis, being a Jew, would have to be the OT. Jesus never referred to homosexuality in the New Testament.

If I hire an electrician and then tell him to ignore code can he legally do that?

There is no legal obligation for a Minister to interpret the Bible in any certain way.

 

[MachZer0]

Employers have the right to change their policy anytime they want. Chaplains are all officers and can resign their commission any time they want.

Social engineering at it's finest. P.S. while an officer may resign his commission, I'm not certain that allows him to leave before his enlistment is up

 

[RedPaddy]

Then all you have is St. Paul speaking out against it, and his basis, being a Jew, would have to be the OT. Jesus never referred to homosexuality in the New Testament.

There is no legal obligation for a Minister to interpret the Bible in any certain way.

Christians belive in the trinity (3 distinct yet still 1 God) so claiming that Jesus was not recorded as speaking about something that is attributable to the Holy Spirit is really not a valid excuse. Add that to the bible also saying that all the acts of Jesus were too numerous to record (my paraphrase) and I really think your argument is without merit.

 

[MachZer0]

Then all you have is St. Paul speaking out against it, and his basis, being a Jew, would have to be the OT. Jesus never referred to homosexuality in the New Testament.

There is no legal obligation for a Minister to interpret the Bible in any certain way.

Jesus didn't refer to a lot of things. Do we reject those as being immoral as well? And is there a brand of Christianity that picks and chooses what it believes in the New Testament based on who said it?

 

[TScott]

Social engineering at it's finest. P.S. while an officer may resign his commission, I'm not certain that allows him to leave before his enlistment is up

Officers are not enlisted. Enlisted men and women are enlisted.

 

[MachZer0]

Officers are not enlisted. Enlisted men and women are enlisted.

So what happens to an officer who resigns his commission with a couple of years left on his enlistment?

 

[RedPaddy]

Officers are not enlisted. Enlisted men and women are enlisted.

Officer candidates sign a contract obligating them to a specific length of service. THere is typically a length of time requried in a commisioned status. Typical length of service is 8 years which includes inactive reserve.

 

[TScott]

Christians belive in the trinity (3 distinct yet still 1 God) so claiming that Jesus was not recorded as speaking about something that is attributable to the Holy Spirit is really not a valid excuse. Add that to the bible also saying that all the acts of Jesus were too numerous to record (my paraphrase) and I really think your argument is without merit.

Then there are Unitarians.

But your saying my argument has no merit, my argument being the way in which I interpret Scripture, is your prerogative, as you say. I can say your argument above is, IMO, specious in that the Christian Scriptures are somewhat ambiguous in their alleged condemnation of homosexuality. It's not clear, based on the Greek words used in the oldest MSS, that they were indeed condemning homosexuals generally, or just homosexuals who were acting lasciviously and not in committed relationships.

Like politics, religion has it's Conservatives and it's Liberals. I can tell you we do not see eye to eye on many aspects of Scripture. Of course you believe you are right, as I believe I am. I have no desire to try to convince you that your beliefs are wrong on any issue of religion, but I will continue to give my views.

 

[TScott]

So what happens to an officer who resigns his commission with a couple of years left on his enlistment?

As redpaddy has pointed out, Officers have contractural obligations, which can easily be broken if both parties agree. Typically officers who join the military as professionals, for example Doctors and Ministers join with contactural obligations favoring the professional, more than the Service. An MD joining the Navy, for example, can easily join as an O-4 (Lt. Commander) if he has a specialty, and his obligation for active service can be as little as two years. But regardless, when an officer becomes at odds with the Service, resigning his commission is usually requested by the Service and it happens.

 

[IanCG]

Social engineering at it's finest. P.S. while an officer may resign his commission, I'm not certain that allows him to leave before his enlistment is up

Officers don't enlist.

 

[RedPaddy]

Then there are Unitarians.

But your saying my argument has no merit, my argument being the way in which I interpret Scripture, is your prerogative, as you say. I can say your argument above is, IMO, specious in that the Christian Scriptures are somewhat ambiguous in their alleged condemnation of homosexuality. It's not clear, based on the Greek words used in the oldest MSS, that they were indeed condemning homosexuals generally, or just homosexuals who were acting lasciviously and not in committed relationships.

Like politics, religion has it's Conservatives and it's Liberals. I can tell you we do not see eye to eye on many aspects of Scripture. Of course you believe you are right, as I believe I am. I have no desire to try to convince you that your beliefs are wrong on any issue of religion, but I will continue to give my views.

Fair enough. I appreciate your reasoned explanation and agree we should accept this and move past.

 

[MachZer0]

As redpaddy has pointed out, Officers have contractural obligations, which can easily be broken if both parties agree. Typically officers who join the military as professionals, for example Doctors and Ministers join with contactural obligations favoring the professional, more than the Service. An MD joining the Navy, for example, can easily join as an O-4 (Lt. Commander) if he has a specialty, and his obligation for active service can be as little as two years. But regardless, when an officer becomes at odds with the Service, resigning his commission is usually requested by the Service and it happens.

Officers don't enlist.

What that leaves us with, as stated earlier, is social engineering at it's finest

 

[TScott]

What that leaves us with, as stated earlier, is social engineering at it's finest

Which is a heck of a lot better than social engineering at it worst.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Just as integration was social engineering. There is nothing inherently wrong with social engineering it simply depends on the direction things are being taken.

 

[MachZer0]

Which is a heck of a lot better than social engineering at it worst.

Just as integration was social engineering. There is nothing inherently wrong with social engineering it simply depends on the direction things are being taken.

Good to know where people stand, for liberty or for security