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Featured To Those Trying to Prove God With Science

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Ohj1n37, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. Ohj1n37

    Ohj1n37 New Member

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    1st Corinthians Chapter 1 New Living Translation

    18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

    21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.

    To those of you who are trying to prove God with science, your heart may be in the right place, but you will never truly succeed in proving God is real with human wisdom. People who do not know if or do not think God is real have made a choice to not seek God. All you can do is be a good example and someone to lean on or someone to point them in the right direction if they ever do decide to go looking for Jesus, meaning sincerely reading the Bible, and or sincerely praying to Jesus.
     
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  2. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I politely disagree friend. God can use many methods to reach people. For me science actually played a huge role in my belief in the existence of God. The complexity of life and the necessities required for life to thrive were two factors that helped me to believe.
     
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  3. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Then it's a very good thing that human wisdom need not be added to science to prove the existence of God, yes? For instance:

    Psalms 19
    1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of His hands.
    2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they display knowledge.
    3 There is no speech or language
    where their voice is not heard.
    4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.

    Romans 1
    19 That which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
    20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    --David
     
  4. Chadrho

    Chadrho a blind squirrel that found a nut Supporter

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    I would agree, but for various reasons. Primarily because science can only speak about that which is within the world (i.e. within creation). God is not within the world, in the sense that God is not a part of creation. Therefore, God is not an object of science. Metaphysics, in the philosophical sense, has a better chance of speaking to God's existence, but I am doubtful there as well. All of that to say, there is plenty room for faith.
     
  5. Stranger36147

    Stranger36147 Active Member

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    You're not suppose to be able to prove God with science. Belief in God is purely based on faith.
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Romans 1:20
    For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

    John 1
    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    Psalm 19
    1 To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

    Colossians 2
    9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

    Hebrews 11
    3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
     
  7. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Member

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    The Bible is a book of accurate history.
    Archaeology [a science], Proves Bible
    History Accurate.

    People in the Bible Confirmed Archaeologically
    https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...ople-in-the-bible-confirmed-archaeologically/

    There is also tons of places mentioned
    only in the bible, confirmed by this science.


    Here is a recent find, the origins of the Philistines
    confirmed by science , told before hand in our bible.

    Ancient DNA Sheds New Light on the Biblical Philistines | Science | Smithsonian
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  8. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Disagree. I have heard people testifying that science, such as the design of the human body, learned in medical school was a big part of what drew them to believe in God.. God can use whatever he likes to bring people in. He's the hound of heaven and he's sneaky that way.
     
  9. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Member

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    Romans 1:20 says “the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made .…”

    The visible universe shows that there must be this invisible matter or force holding it all together.

    -We can see the invisible power of God
    by seeing [the visible].

    [science] Dark Energy, Dark Matter
    Dark Energy, Dark Matter | Science Mission Directorate

    "More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery.

    It turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the universe. "
    -

    Dark matter
    Dark matter - Wikipedia

    Dark matter has not been directly observed, but its presence is implied in a variety of astrophysical measurements, notably when observing gravitational effects that cannot be explained by visible matter alone. For this reason most experts consider that dark matter is ubiquitous in the universe and has strongly affected its structure and evolution.

    The name dark matter refers to the fact that it does not appear to interact with observable electromagnetic radiation, such as light, and is thus invisible (or 'dark') to the entire electromagnetic spectrum, making it extremely difficult to detect using usual astronomical equipment.[1]
    -

    "a mysterious, dark force that
    is pulling galaxies apart."

    What is dark matter? No one knows.
    We can register its effects, but we cannot
    see it or measure it.

    When God spoke to Job about the universe..

    “Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, that thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?” (Job 38:19-20).

    The Living Bible renders this, “[T]ell me about the darkness. Where does it come from? Can you find its boundaries, or go to its source?”

    By the power of God “were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all thing were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist” (Colossians 1:16-17).

    “By him all things consist” or are held together.
    Perhaps “dark matter” is actually the invisible
    power of God holding the universe together.

    Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus Christ is
    “upholding the universe by his word of power”

    Upholding comes from a Greek word meaning to bear or carry. God says in Psalm 75:3 that “When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars” (rsv). God holds together and sustains the universe by His power.

    Whatever “dark matter” actually is, we know that God created all things—both visible and invisible—and that He is the Sustainer of the universe.
     
  10. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Member

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    Somethings science does not understand,
    like [the spirit in man]


    - this is not Gods holy spirit it's mans, every human has this from the womb. Ecclesiastes 11:5

    1 The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

    - science calls it youre concience, they can't see, or feel, or touch it, calling it human nature.

    8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

    - this it what imparts thought, it separates mans brain and thoughts from animals instincts, but science cant understand it. Why is man so much more intelligent then animals with the same size brain.


    7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  11. A. Sinner

    A. Sinner New Member

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    The battle between science and religion is dumb, pointless, and will bear no fruit...ever.

    Faith is not required to prove itself to science and by its very nature would never be able to. That’s what makes faith, faith.

    The materialists will never accept this for obvious reasons but it doesn’t matter. If anything, the only common ground that could be made is that science is man’s way of trying to explain God’s workings. And, in fact, long ago when science was in its infancy, and at its most powerful, most of the great scientific thinkers like Newton and Darwin were also men of faith. It hasn’t always been an us vs them thing, that is very new in our dialogue and it’s bad.
     
  12. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Member

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    Not sure Charles Darwin was a Christian.
    His "sacred cause" : proving the common
    descent of mankind [came] from lower life forms.

    We where made in the image and likeness
    of God, and animals [after there kind]

    Most scientist do not put God anywhere
    in the picture of things that come to be or is.

    Every law of science, [like law of gravity]
    that has been ever discovered, was written
    and made by God long ago.
     
  13. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Member

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    Tell that to all the kids in school in science, that learn very young, they came from slime and believe a lie .

    Satan has a field day polluting our kids with a creation story without God the creator in it.
     
  14. A. Sinner

    A. Sinner New Member

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    I think you missed my point as those who engage in this conversation from an ideological standpoint only are want to do.
     
  15. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Member

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    “Their eyes they have closed” Matthew 13:15
    Scientists are studying God’s creation—and their eyes are closed! They choose to exalt the creation above the magnificent Creator.
     
  16. mmarco

    mmarco New Member

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    I agree that God's existence cannot be proved by science, but I think that a rational analysis of our scientifc knowledges may provide convincing arguments which may support and strenghten the belief in God's existence.
    At least, such analysis clearly proves that there are no contradictions between our scientific knowledges and the belief in the existence of an intelligent God.

    However, I would like to stress the fundamental difference between the concept of "belief in God's existence" and "faith in God". I think that "to have faith in God" does not mean simply " to believe that God exists", but it means "to trust and love God, to identify God as the sourse of all good"

    This difference is explained also in the Bible:

    James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder.
     
  17. Grumman Tomcat

    Grumman Tomcat The LORD is my Pilot Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
    [​IMG]
    MOD HAT OFF
     
  18. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    The argument that scientific observation reveals YHWH is one of reasonableness, not one of proof. The scientifically minded theist points out that on science alone it is reasonable to consider that YHWH exists.

    This is not to say that the position that YHWH exists is not one of faith, rather our faith in His existence continues to be reasonable in the light of scientific evidence.

    This argument flies in the face of the prevailing popular narrative that claims that faith involves the suspension of rational thought and that people of faith are delusional.

    Besides I'm not sure that what Paul was talking about in this passage in Corinthians is intended in this light.

    It seems to me that when Paul spoke of the foolishness of the cross, he was referring to the act of YHWH revealing himself in a YEHUSHUA and in Him becoming a servant to the point of dying a criminal death on the cross. This act of laying down ones life to death is one of foolishness to the natural mind, the wisdom of which is only revealed by the Spirit to those of us who believe in His resurrection.

    There is nothing foolish about recognizing the hand of the Creator in His creation and indeed those who accumulate knowledge by observation of His creation are left without excuse; He really does exist and is manifest throughout the created universe.

    The heavens are proclaiming the esteem of El; and the expanse is declaring the the work of His hand. Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge.
     
  19. Ohj1n37

    Ohj1n37 New Member

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    What I was trying to get at with the verses that I shared is that we who are saved can see God in creation. We can see his beauty and his awesomeness. We can see how the way in which this universe works can only work this way because of him, but those who are not saved don't, at least that is what I have observed.

    The only thing that can save anybody, allow them to see God's beauty in everything, and understand how he is necessary for all that is around us, is for that individual to come to know him through his son Jesus Christ. No one can come to the father, but through the son.
     
  20. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    This is the very foundation of Western science as expounded by many of the greats: ‘This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being. … This Being governs all things, not as the soul of the world, but as Lord over all; and on account of his dominion he is wont to be called “Lord God” Παντοκράτωρ [Pantokratōr cf. 2 Corinthians 6:18], or “Universal Ruler”. … The Supreme God is a Being eternal, infinite, absolutely perfect.’ Sir Isaac Newton

    This is the delusion that has hijacked the scientific mainstream but is not science and is foolishness.

    While I agree with you about salvation, on the topic of being able to see God through His creation Paul writes: The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

    For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

    Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Romans 1

    Clearly God holds us all accountable for not seeing Him in His creation.
     
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