To the gentlemen: When considering women's clothing, what is your stumbling block?

[RDKirk]

It's interesting how this topic always brings out the self-righteousness indignation on all sides.

 

[TamaraLynne]

or Faux pas

 

[bornofGod888]

Forgiven, brother.

Thank you. Again, I'll see to it that it doesn't happen again. My bad.

When is the last time that you, my brother, looked in the mirror and asked yourself whether your pants would cause someone else to sin? I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it has never happened.

You've guessed wrong. Look, obviously I wasn't always a Christian, so I had to unlearn a whole host of mindsets and heartsets when I became one. As an unsaved man, I definitely dressed as to draw attention unto myself and also lifted weights, wore certain fragrances, etc. to try to draw women unto myself. Now, as a Christian, I seek to even draw others unto Christ by the way that I dress. Oh, I know that my clothing cannot save anybody, but I do regularly (and I mean REGULARLY) wear ballcaps with Christian themed messages on them, regularly wear a leather belt which has the words "Jesus is Lord" inbedded into it and regularly wear Christian themed t-shirts, too, and such apparel has gotten me into numerous (and I mean NUMEROUS) discussions with people about Jesus Christ. IOW, I now dress to hopefully draw attention unto Him as opposed to drawing attention unto myself. Sure, some people call me a "fanatic", but, then again, they wouldn't mind if I was wearing apparel of my favorite sports team as one of their "fans" (fanatics), right?

Yet I see this with my sisters all the time. Now, the answer is not 'those pants are fine' or 'those pants are out', because that just backs the same question up until tomorrow morning. The real answer is the question: Why are you so concerned about your pants?

Because if they're too tight, then somebody might want to get in them...

I'm sorry, but, c'mon, let's not bury our heads in the sand here. I personally have a very serious problem with the way that my own wife dresses, although I no longer even mention it to her. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to her, nor am I trying to be the least bit flippant myself, but I honestly believe that almost every single person who has ever seen my wife has seen her butt crack (can I say that here?). And by "butt crack", I mean enough of it to mail a normal sized letter in. Seriously (I'm not joking), when she bends over, you can almost hear Andy Williams singing "Moon River". In fact, our own children have commented to my wife about this several times...all to no avail. By dressing in such a manner, I believe that my wife dishonors God, dishonors me as her husband, dishonors our children who are openly embarrassed by my wife's manner of dressing (and I haven't even addressed other forms of her attire) and, quite frankly, dishonors herself by lowering herself to "a piece of meat" to whet the ungodly appetites of others.

How can one boldly proclaim the love of Christ if they can't even boldly get dressed in the morning?

As I suggested earlier, by attempting not to be a stumblingblock to others, one is "boldly proclaiming the love of Christ" (I Cor. 8).

So my answer to the OP is: Wear what everyone else is wearing. Do not seek to stand out for your 'righteous' or 'unrighteous' clothing. Rather, seek to be known for your love.

Where, then, does not being conformed to the world come into play?

 

[bornofGod888]

It's interesting how this topic always brings out the self-righteousness indignation on all sides.

Better still, it's interesting to note how some people still don't understand what "self-righteousness" even is...

 

[TamaraLynne]

oops once again...RDKirk...my faux pas was not directed at what you just wrote...okay maybe the net is not for me today...I'm like a step behind You all have a wonderful day...i'm signing off now...

 

[Rev Randy]

When is the last time that you, my brother, looked in the mirror and asked yourself whether your pants would cause someone else to sin? I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it has never happened.
Yet I see this with my sisters all the time. Now, the answer is not 'those pants are fine' or 'those pants are out', because that just backs the same question up until tomorrow morning. The real answer is the question: Why are you so concerned about your pants?

How can one boldly proclaim the love of Christ if they can't even boldly get dressed in the morning?

So my answer to the OP is: Wear what everyone else is wearing. Do not seek to stand out for your 'righteous' or 'unrighteous' clothing. Rather, seek to be known for your love.

In my case you'd be correct. Can't say I've ever thought my pants would cause a gal to sin. But I do watch my words when speaking to women as they are more audibly fixated where men are visual.
I also do not remember ever asking if my pants make my butt look big. I just assumed it was my big butt making it look that way.
When one is my age and shape we don't worry about showing off our six-pack or large pectoral muscles. I have chest of drawers syndrome. My chest has fallen down around my drawers and my six pack is now a keg.

But seriously, the only way I know I'm wearing something I should not is when the wife asks< "You"re not wearing that,are you'? i guess she sees something wrong with black slacks and brown shoes.

 

[bornofGod888]

bornofGod888 I also for some reason got confused and posted on another thread that is the same topic as this one I feel better that I'm not alone in my oops moment

Believe me, I've caught some other potential "oops moments" just before I've clicked the "Submit Reply" button in the past. Not to make excuses (especially since I've already confessed and repented of my guilt), but I'm usually doing too many things at once and I lose track of things at times.

 

[Joykins]

You find that to be humorous?

It's only funny in the sense that it's completely and utterly predictable.

But, since it is actually true, for at least some men, there is simply no point trying to get men's opinions on what is modest or not because as a woman you can never be modest enough for some, thus the burqa. Dressing appropriate to the situation is just fine, and if in doubt of situational appropriateness, an older woman can no doubt advise.

And if it was me you were accusing of being flippant, you're right, I often am but there is usually a point behind it.

 

[Joykins]

I'm sorry, but, c'mon, let's not bury our heads in the sand here. I personally have a very serious problem with the way that my own wife dresses, although I no longer even mention it to her. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to her, nor am I trying to be the least bit flippant myself, but I honestly believe that almost every single person who has ever seen my wife has seen her butt crack (can I say that here?). And by "butt crack", I mean enough of it to mail a normal sized letter in. Seriously (I'm not joking), when she bends over, you can almost hear Andy Williams singing "Moon River". In fact, our own children have commented to my wife about this several times...all to no avail. By dressing in such a manner, I believe that my wife dishonors God, dishonors me as her husband, dishonors our children who are openly embarrassed by my wife's manner of dressing (and I haven't even addressed other forms of her attire) and, quite frankly, dishonors herself by lowering herself to "a piece of meat" to whet the ungodly appetites of others.

I don't know what size your wife is but I have actually had trouble in those years of "low cut" pants (which fortunately seem to be coming to the end) finding pants that do NOT do that. I compensate by wearing longer shirts, but I am not really up on fashion so I don't know if that's something anyone else would want to try.

But yes, it is distracting even to me as a woman when I am teaching Sunday School with someone who appears to be dressed perfectly fine otherwise, and she bends over and I can see that. I blame the low-cut pants craze.

 

[bornofGod888]

I don't know what size your wife is but I have actually had trouble in those years of "low cut" pants (which fortunately seem to be coming to the end) finding pants that do NOT do that. I compensate by wearing longer shirts, but I am not really up on fashion so I don't know if that's something anyone else would want to try.

But yes, it is distracting even to me as a woman when I am teaching Sunday School with someone who appears to be dressed perfectly fine otherwise, and she bends over and I can see that. I blame the low-cut pants craze.

Believe me, I went through years of offering to buy my wife longer shirts and different cut pants and she would have none of that. In her case, at least, I believe that there are underlying spiritual issues which haven't been dealt with and which manifest themselves in different ways outwardly.

 

[seeingeyes]

Where, then, does not being conformed to the world come into play?

Well, everywhere except how we dress, I suppose. Jesus didn't stand out for his clothing choices. Paul didn't stand out for his clothing choices. Peter didn't stand out for his clothing choices.

I don't believe that Christians are called to stand out in such an external way. Otherwise, Christian men wouldn't dare wear suits on Sunday morning.

But the example of your wife is a good one, because the problem is that her clothing is standing out in a way that makes her family uncomfortable, and yet she refuses to change it. This is a problem of the heart, not the crack.

Then again, her uncompromising view of fashion is only a problem because it clashes with your own uncompromising view of fashion. All dishonor falls away with a little humility on either side. Ask yourself this: If you had this argument in front of Holy God, who would win? The woman who refuses to buy longer shirts in order to comfort her family? Or the man who harbors resentment with the wife of his youth over her pants?

Everyone loses.

Therefore, have salt in yourselves and live at peace with one another.

Anyone can put a suit on Sunday morning and call themselves righteous, but our God sees the heart. Let's be more like our God who sees what's underneath, than the world that only sees what's on top.

 

[seeingeyes]

But seriously, the only way I know I'm wearing something I should not is when the wife asks< "You"re not wearing that,are you'? i guess she sees something wrong with black slacks and brown shoes.

She is a wise woman. Do not neglect her counsel.

 

[from scratch]

Well, everywhere except how we dress, I suppose. Jesus didn't stand out for his clothing choices. Paul didn't stand out for his clothing choices. Peter didn't stand out for his clothing choices.

I don't believe that Christians are called to stand out in such an external way. Otherwise, Christian men wouldn't dare wear suits on Sunday morning.

But the example of your wife is a good one, because the problem is that her clothing is standing out in a way that makes her family uncomfortable, and yet she refuses to change it. This is a problem of the heart, not the crack.

Then again, her uncompromising view of fashion is only a problem because it clashes with your own uncompromising view of fashion. All dishonor falls away with a little humility on either side. Ask yourself this: If you had this argument in front of Holy God, who would win? The woman who refuses to buy longer shirts in order to comfort her family? Or the man who harbors resentment with the wife of his youth over her pants?

Everyone loses.

Therefore, have salt in yourselves and live at peace with one another.

Anyone can put a suit on Sunday morning and call themselves righteous, but our God sees the heart. Let's be more like our God who sees what's underneath, than the world that only sees what's on top.

Well that seems like great advice. Problem is we really don't like the truth and therefore hide. There are many layers of hiding. Man is outright scared.

 

[Joykins]

Believe me, I went through years of offering to buy my wife longer shirts and different cut pants and she would have none of that. In her case, at least, I believe that there are underlying spiritual issues which haven't been dealt with and which manifest themselves in different ways outwardly.

Then I suppose it would be best to pray and support her in working out her issues as she comes to dealing with them. But if it is an external manifestation of an internal issue, it isn't going to be dealt with by treating it merely as a modesty issue (which is external).

 

[from scratch]

In my case you'd be correct. Can't say I've ever thought my pants would cause a gal to sin. But I do watch my words when speaking to women as they are more audibly fixated where men are visual.
I also do not remember ever asking if my pants make my butt look big. I just assumed it was my big butt making it look that way.
When one is my age and shape we don't worry about showing off our six-pack or large pectoral muscles. I have chest of drawers syndrome. My chest has fallen down around my drawers and my six pack is now a keg.

But seriously, the only way I know I'm wearing something I should not is when the wife asks< "You"re not wearing that,are you'? i guess she sees something wrong with black slacks and brown shoes.

Hey I was desocialized for sock color.

 

[Rev Randy]

bornofGod888 I also for some reason got confused and posted on another thread that is the same topic as this one I feel better that I'm not alone in my oops moment

That is very easy to do.

 

[Rev Randy]

I don't know what size your wife is but I have actually had trouble in those years of "low cut" pants (which fortunately seem to be coming to the end) finding pants that do NOT do that. I compensate by wearing longer shirts, but I am not really up on fashion so I don't know if that's something anyone else would want to try.

But yes, it is distracting even to me as a woman when I am teaching Sunday School with someone who appears to be dressed perfectly fine otherwise, and she bends over and I can see that. I blame the low-cut pants craze.

Plumbers butt is not gender specific. And it does not require low cut pants. A lack of suspenders can also cause it. Now this is the alternative

 

[bornofGod888]

Well, everywhere except how we dress, I suppose. Jesus didn't stand out for his clothing choices. Paul didn't stand out for his clothing choices. Peter didn't stand out for his clothing choices.

Yet, both Paul...

"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works." - I Timothy 2:9-10

...and Peter...

"Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel: But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement." - I Peter 3:3-6

...addressed the issue in their epistles. Look, I personally believe that this issue goes much deeper than one's outward appearance. In fact, I believe that the verses which I cited, when properly understood, are primarily dealing with the matters of the heart which will have outward manifestations, either good or evil. For example, you mentioned Jesus. Well, if, like me, you believe that the prophets of old had "the Spirit of Christ in them" (I Pet. 1:11), then you should also believe that Christ was the One Who was speaking the following way back in the days of Isaiah:

"Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the LORD will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. In that day the LORD will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and the cauls, and their round tires like the moon, The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, The bonnets, and the ornament of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, The rings, and nose jewels, The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails. And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty." - Isaiah 3:16-24

Generally speaking, is God opposed to a woman wearing clothing and earrings? I mean, didn't Abraham's servant give "jewels of gold and raiment" (Gen. 24:53) to Rebekah? What, then, was the real issue here? The real issue was their haughtiness and their need to repent of the same with "a girding of sackcloth". Do you honestly believe that haughtiness today does not affect how some men and women dress and carry themselves about? I mean, c'mon, there's nothing new under the sun. Anyhow, I don't find it to be coincidental that Peter addressed the inward adorning of "a meek and quiet spirit" in contrast to certain "outward adornings" as I believe that this is the real issue before God. IOW, if one walks in true inner humility before God, then how to dress outwardly will be a no brainer.

I don't believe that Christians are called to stand out in such an external way. Otherwise, Christian men wouldn't dare wear suits on Sunday morning.

Not that I'm the standard or anything, but you'll never catch me in a suit unless I'm attending either a wedding or a funeral and, even then, only out of respect for others. Personally, I'm against this whole "dressing up for God" thing.

But the example of your wife is a good one, because the problem is that her clothing is standing out in a way that makes her family uncomfortable, and yet she refuses to change it. This is a problem of the heart, not the crack.

lol.

So, you don't fear the dreaded "crack attack"?

That makes one of us...

Then again, her uncompromising view of fashion is only a problem because it clashes with your own uncompromising view of fashion. All dishonor falls away with a little humility on either side. Ask yourself this: If you had this argument in front of Holy God, who would win? The woman who refuses to buy longer shirts in order to comfort her family? Or the man who harbors resentment with the wife of his youth over her pants?

Everyone loses.

Who said that I "harbor resentment towards my wife over her pants"? Not me...that's for sure. Anyhow, to answer your question, I would "win"...not that I'm looking to somehow "best" my wife. Look, we've been bought with a price and we're to glorify God in our bodies and in our spirits and I don't see how "flashing one's butt crack" (Again, I'm talking about enough to park one's bicycle wheel in it...that's how much is showing) comes anywhere remotely close to doing the same.

Therefore, have salt in yourselves and live at peace with one another.

Hey, if you knew how much I like pretzels, then you wouldn't be worried about my "salt" levels".

Seriously, though, ironically, you seem to be trying to "cover up" (as in excusing) that which ought to be "covered up" (as in literally covered up). IOW, you seem to be discounting the very real fact that a lot of people dress inappropriately from God's vantage point. Seeing how He doesn't want men (or women, for that matter) to lust, then how could He possibly be pleased by those who dress in an enticing manner? Haven't you ever read how the Bible describes the "attire" of a harlot, for example? Should we, as Christians, dress in such an enticing manner? Personally, I think not and I believe that I have the mind of Christ on this matter as my beliefs line up with His Word.

Anyone can put a suit on Sunday morning and call themselves righteous, but our God sees the heart. Let's be more like our God who sees what's underneath, than the world that only sees what's on top.

Again, you're seemingly missing my entire point. By "seeing what's on top", the world is also "seeing what's within" in many cases. IOW, the wrong manner or mode of dressing is often a reflection of something that is wrong in one's heart. Granted, this works both ways. IOW, the Pharisees "appeared beautiful outwardly, but within were full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness" (Matt. 23:27), so both our inward and outward appearances need to line up with each other.

Anyhow, I'm certainly not going to beat this dead horse. Instead, I'll just go back to focusing on myself, as is my norm.

 

[tall73]

I don't know what size your wife is but I have actually had trouble in those years of "low cut" pants (which fortunately seem to be coming to the end) finding pants that do NOT do that. I compensate by wearing longer shirts, but I am not really up on fashion so I don't know if that's something anyone else would want to try.

Yeah my wife has reported the same difficulty when shopping for jeans, especially for our kids, which is even more troubling. If they want to make such things, at least continue to produce the alternative types.

She eventually finds better ones but has to look a while.

But yes, it is distracting even to me as a woman when I am teaching Sunday School with someone who appears to be dressed perfectly fine otherwise, and she bends over and I can see that. I blame the low-cut pants craze.

I was at a funeral in a small town with an older population, and one of the attendees showed up in low rise dress pants that also seemed to be a size too big.

Even the older ladies were complaining about her thong underwear, so it is not just an issue of lust. Sometimes it is an issue of "what are you thinking?"

 

[tall73]

Forgiven, brother.




When is the last time that you, my brother, looked in the mirror and asked yourself whether your pants would cause someone else to sin? I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it has never happened.

Yet I see this with my sisters all the time. Now, the answer is not 'those pants are fine' or 'those pants are out', because that just backs the same question up until tomorrow morning. The real answer is the question: Why are you so concerned about your pants?

How can one boldly proclaim the love of Christ if they can't even boldly get dressed in the morning?

So my answer to the OP is: Wear what everyone else is wearing. Do not seek to stand out for your 'righteous' or 'unrighteous' clothing. Rather, seek to be known for your love.

If you ask that question when you buy them, which is what the OP is suggesting, you don't have to face the question every morning again.

She is describing a one-time wardrobe refresh, not an ongoing struggle that impedes her service to God.