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To Literalists

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by TheBear, Apr 25, 2002.

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  1. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    I know I'm going to get lynched for posting this one, but hey, what the heck! :D

    Did a snake literally speak to Eve, in the Garden of Eden? If so, how? The mouth, teeth, lips and toungue structure of any snake, along with the lack of any vocal cords, make it impossible for a snake to do anything more than hiss. You may say, "With God, all things are possible", which will lead into another realm of this discussion, but for now, the question is: Did a snake literally speak to Eve?


    John
     
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  2. SCJ

    SCJ Veteran Supporter

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    Remember, the serpent was the most beautiful and desireable of God's creation. Apparently it stood upright since God cursed it to now crawl on it's belly. The serpent who tempted Eve was very different (as different as Night and Day) than the one we now know. God didn't curse the serpent until AFTER it was found that Satan indwelled in the serpent had deceived Eve. Any physical restraints we see in snakes of today are Post-curse, and the serpent spoke of in Genesis was Pre-curse.
     
  3. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Welcome aboard, SCJ! :wave:

    The root word for serpent, in Hebrew, is 'snake'. Where in scripture does the snake stand upright? Also, could you please refresh my memory about the serpent being regarded as the most beautiful and desireable of God's creations?

    Thanks,
    John
     
  4. ANITA

    ANITA New Member

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    SCRIPTURE REFERS TO SATAN AS "THE SERPENT", NOT A SERPENT.
     
  5. ANITA

    ANITA New Member

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    LOL, I HAVNT SEEN ANY TALKING SNAKES THESE DAYS, WOW THAT WOULD BE CRAZY IF I WERE WALKING ALONG AND A SNAKE SAID, "HEY YA HUNGRY", LOL
     
  6. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    So, is it the snake that is crawling around on it's belly and eating dust all the days of it's life, or is it satan who is crawling around on his belly and eating dust all the days of his life?

    John

    BTW, is your caps-lock key stuck? :scratch:
     
  7. SCJ

    SCJ Veteran Supporter

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    No where does the Bible speak of the beauty of the Serpent.

    Genesis 3:1 (NKJV) says 'Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.'

    Genesis 3:14 (NKJV) God says to the serpent (after finding out about the deception) 'Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field; on your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.'

    There is no scriptural basis for the beauty of the serpent. However, Eve showed no fear either before the knowledge of good or evil (from eating of the tree) or after. Because God curses the serpent to now crawl on it's belly and eat of the dust then it is obvious that the serpent did not crawl on it's belly before, therefore the logical assumption that it was somehow upright.

    Satan is certainly a part of the serpent, even though the serpent is a created creature.

    So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast out to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him . . . He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years (Revelation 12:9;20:2)

    Satan speaking through the serpent, or any animal for that matter, is not exclusive though. As my topic suggests. God did it as well:

    In the Book of Numbers we find God speaking to the prophet Balaam through a donkey.

    Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times (Numbers 22:28)

    So, jokingly, is this a biblical Mr. Ed? The donkey underwent no curse after this speaking and apparently is the same donkey as today.
     
  8. SCJ

    SCJ Veteran Supporter

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    Genesis 3:14 is the curse to the snake.
    Genesis 3:15 is the curse to Satan.

    3:15 is also the first prophecy of the coming Messiah (He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.)

    Oh yeah, thanks for the welcome. :) I hadn't intended to stop here since I am at my mother in laws house jsut browsing but I was looking for another Christian forum in the search engine and found this one...I read your post first in browsing and decided to register real quick and respond. It's a great place and I will add it to my bookmarks when I get home. :)
     
  9. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    I'm glad you found this site, SCJ. :) God does move in mysterious ways. I'm super happy this thread caught your eyes, and prompted you to register. :clap:

    I look forward to your future participation here at Christian Forums.



    John
     
  10. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    I ran into this site because of some jerk who spammed an RPG-related group about how D&D would turn us all to the Devil, and if we didn't stop playing, we'd go to Hell. But I was curious, and I had some free time, so I thought I'd visit anyway.
     
  11. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Okay then. Back to the topic. 'The Talking Snake'.

    Any further comments?


    John
     
  12. Elijah

    Elijah Berean

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    As far as a talking serpent goes, I think it would be obvious that if the serpent talked it would not be under it's own power. It is miraculous for it to talk in the first play.

    I don't know of any Donkey's that can speak a word, much less make complete sentences.

    In both cases, I would say that something outside of the animal itself was performing the act. If the Bible says it, as a Christian I believe it.

    Elijah (2 Tim 3:16-17)
     
  13. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    I agree 100%.....But, if that be the case with the serpent, why did God curse the serpent, instead of fucusing His wrath on Satan alone? Did the serpent think, "Okay Satan, I'll allow you to speak through me."? Was the serpent 'evil' before Satan spoke through it? :scratch: God spoke through a donkey, but when He was done, did He give donkeys any special blessings? :scratch:

    Think about all the aspects of what I'm saying.


    John
     
  14. BigEd

    BigEd an adopted child of God

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    The bible also depicts Satan as a dragon ( in the book of revelation). the snake could be figurative or it could have been possessed. Either way, still eve was tempted.
     
  15. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Well, some scholars say that Genesis 1-3 is not literal, but a Hebrew adaptation of Babylonian/Sumerian creation story myths like the Enuma Elish and Gilgamesh. Check them out for yourself; the similarities are quite interesting.

    Also, was the serpent Satan? The Genesis text never ACTUALLY says that the serpent IS Satan.

    On a different note: Did the serpent lie?

    Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." - Genesis 3:1-5, NASB

    In the first statement, the serpent asks Eve if God told her that God would punish her with death if she ate from the tree. Eve of course confirms this. But then the serpent tells her she will not die. Here, the question is: Was the serpent speaking literally?

    If you say that the serpent wasn't lying, in that he tells her she would not physically die on the spot, then the serpent was telling the truth. And physical death is the only thing Eve has observed: when she eats a plant, it must, by necessity, cease to live: pick the plant and it dies, eat the fruit and you die. This is the only type of death that Eve is aware of, therefore, she cannot help but only think of immediate physical death because of her ignorance. So, within the context of the conversation, the serpent never lies.

    Of course you could also say that he doesn't tell her the full truth either. But even if the serpent WANTED to talk about spiritual death, Eve wouldn't even be able to understand spiritual death, or by association, it's cause, sin. She had never experienced sin, and therefore could not comprehend it's consequence. Can the serpent be held responsible for Eve's ignorance? Then again, if the serpent can't be held responsible, why does God curse him? You could say the serpent exploited her ignorance, but if mankind was supposedly the epitome of God's creation, having been created in the image of God, then how could a "beast of the field", cunning as he may be, understand spiritual death before Adam and Eve? :scratch:

    What are your thoughts on this alternative interpretation?
     
  16. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Consistency is what I am looking for in this passage of scripture. If it is Satan who is being reffered to as the serpent, then it is Satan who is cursed to go on his belly, eating dust all the days of his life. But, other scripture contradicts that Satan goes about on his belly. If it is literally the snake, used by Satan, to be cursed in that mannor, that opens up a pleathera of contradictions. If you interpret it literally being a snake, being used by Satan, why whould God curse an unwitting and passive 'participant'?


    John
     
  17. Me4him

    Me4him New Member

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    All physical creation is a "carbon copy" of God's "Spiritual creation".

    "Poison snakes" are a symbol that Satan is loose, free to bite any who come in contact with him.

    During the "Millennium Reign" when Satan is bound up, snakes will not bite.

    Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

    :9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

    God told Adam:

    Ge 3:19 for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    God then told Satan:
    Ge 3:14 and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    God gave Satan "FLESH" to be his "bread of life".

    Jesus said:
    Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


    This of course is a "Spiritual concept", when you obey the "lust of the flesh", you're "feeding Satan".
     
  18. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Interesting.
     
  19. chagal was here

    chagal was here jack's raging bile

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    i don't believe it was a literal snake in a literal garden speaking to actual historical individuals named adam and eve...

    i accept that this is a retelling of sumerian myths re-interpreted to deliever God's message.

    Mankind was created good and perfect in God's image, but it was quite obvious to the author that we don't anylonger live in God's image - and so a story was needed to explain why and how this state of being came to be.

    a true myth if you will.

    myth in that these are not actual factual indviduals and events, but
    true in that the message of sin and the promise of redemption is delivered through the story.
     
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