To have a Jezebel spirit?

[Heartofsilver]

This has been puzzling me for years and even more so recently as I have done some research on it. What does it mean to have a Jezebel spirit? Is one demonically possessed or has there own eternal spirit become a Jezebel spirit or does it mean something else entirely?

 

[Carl Emerson]

There is a modern trend in some churches to attribute behaviours to spiritual entities. Jezebel is a favourite label used to describe a controlling feminine personality. These terms can be used rather flippantly without any real discernment. While such bondage is possible it would be rather rare and never full blown possession in a believer.
Can I ask why this matter has come to the fore?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Any teaching about the so-called "Jezebel spirit" is utter nonsense and not Biblical. It's fanaticism, the result of poor exegesis and it betrays a lack of knowledge regarding Christian basics. You can go ahead and disregard it, and instead find comfort in God's grace for us through the person and works of Jesus Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit, who works in us. We can trust in God's promise that not even the gates of hell can stand against His Bride, the Church.

Now, just as a disclaimer, I don't deny the existence of demons, and demon-possession certainly is real, but what these movements are preaching about, and their means for combating the supposed "spirits", is absolutely not in line with Scripture. They are not only chasing myths, but inventing it for profit, selling materials with strange and novel ideas regarding the demonic. It's best to stick to the Bible, the true Word of the Lord, and be firmly rooted in the chief article of faith, that we are saved by grace apart from works, and that we are to love God and love our neighbour, by communicating the Gospel and do good to them.

 

[Carl Emerson]

their means for combating the supposed "spirits", is absolutely not in line with Scripture

What do you consider are these 'means' and what scripture are they not in line with?

 

[Daniel9v9]

What do you consider are these 'means' and what scripture are they not in line with?

A couple of examples:

It's been taught that you can suffer demon possession if you have something in common with the demon. But if you change your heart so that you don't have anything in common with the evil spirit, the demon can't possess you, and you won't suffer illness.

I've seen a video where someone is fighting against what they believe to be a possessed area, using shofars, kettledrums and a tuning fork! Apparently, the tuning fork was needed to "level the area", whatever that means - somehow to remove evil.

I've also heard a sermon where it's been taught that the reason you can't get an increase in your income (that is, get rich) is that there are demons who put a cap on your finances. They claim that you are required to follow some steps to overcome the demon, in order that you can position yourself to prosper.

Still more, Jennifer LeClaire wrote a whole book on how to defeat "water spirits":
https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Warriors-Guide-Defeating-Spirits/dp/076844294X
She's also preached a lot and very detailed information on the "Jezebel spirit", nowhere to be found in Scriptures. She, and others, promote their own seminars, courses and books that will help us overcome demons - in exchange for money.

I'm happy to go into details on why these ideas are problematic, but hopefully, it should be self-evident. What is common to all of these is a real lack of Biblical substance. Christ is not preached. The Gospel is forgotten. Its main focus is on what we need to do to overcome illness and evil, when Scripture nowhere promises that Christians will be rich and healthy.

 

[longwait]

This has been puzzling me for years and even more so recently as I have done some research on it. What does it mean to have a Jezebel spirit? Is one demonically possessed or has there own eternal spirit become a Jezebel spirit or does it mean something else entirely?

I guess it refers to anyone who deceives the masses with false doctrines, prophecies and practices.

Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, except to hold on to what you have until I come.’ Revelation 2:20-25

 

[topher694]

A couple of examples:

It's been taught that you can suffer demon possession if you have something in common with the demon. But if you change your heart so that you don't have anything in common with the evil spirit, the demon can't possess you, and you won't suffer illness.

I've seen a video where someone is fighting against what they believe to be a possessed area, using shofars, kettledrums and a tuning fork! Apparently, the tuning fork was needed to "level the area", whatever that means - somehow to remove evil.

I've also heard a sermon where it's been taught that the reason you can't get an increase in your income (that is, get rich) is that there are demons who put a cap on your finances. They claim that you are required to follow some steps to overcome the demon, in order that you can position yourself to prosper.

Still more, Jennifer LeClaire wrote a whole book on how to defeat "water spirits":
https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Warriors-Guide-Defeating-Spirits/dp/076844294X
She's also preached a lot and very detailed information on the "Jezebel spirit", nowhere to be found in Scriptures. She, and others, promote their own seminars, courses and books that will help us overcome demons - in exchange for money.

I'm happy to go into details on why these ideas are problematic, but hopefully, it should be self-evident. What is common to all of these is a real lack of Biblical substance. Christ is not preached. The Gospel is forgotten. Its main focus is on what we need to do to overcome illness and evil, when Scripture nowhere promises that Christians will be rich and healthy.

Demonic spirits can influence people without possession being involved. Some of these influences we name with the biblical person that best exampled being influenced by that spirit. It's a means of easy identification and communication. Nothing more. Like a "Judas spirit" might communicate betrayal by those closest to you.

Have you even read the books that you are bashing? They are full of scripture. Including Revelation 2 that longwait reverenced that directly mentions Jezebel and is supposed to be sent directly from Jesus. Have you ever met Jennifer LeClaire? Do you know her well enough to know her heart? Well enough to accuse her of such things? Such accusations are not very Christ-like behavior in my opinion.

Do some people abuse these ideas? Sure. But just because some people abuse the truth doesn't mean we should refuse the truth.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Demonic spirits can influence people without possession being involved. Some of these influences we name with the biblical person that best exampled being influenced by that spirit. It's a means of easy identification and communication. Nothing more. Like a "Judas spirit" might communicate betrayal by those closest to you.

Have you even read the books that you are bashing? They are full of scripture. Including Revelation 2 that longwait reverenced that directly mentions Jezebel and is supposed to be sent directly from Jesus. Have you ever met Jennifer LeClaire? Do you know her well enough to know her heart? Well enough to accuse her of such things? Such accusations are not very Christ-like behavior in my opinion.

Do some people abuse these ideas? Sure. But just because some people abuse the truth doesn't mean we should refuse the truth.

I haven't read her books, but I have checked out her videos online. She's proven incapable of correctly handling the Word of God as her studies not only suffer poor Biblical exegesis, but she's even adding to Scripture. Her detailed demonology and assertions are nowhere to be found in Scripture. She rips verses out of context and twists them into ideas that are entirely foreign to both Scripture and history.

Anyone who holds to Sola Scriptura must by necessity reject her teachings, as what she teaches is most certainly extra-Biblical. It comes from her own revelation, that she claims to come from God. If she spoke the truth, then she would be able to correctly handle Scripture. Case in point - Revelation 2 is not about the so-called "Jezebel spirit" as suggested by LeClaire. That's a modern invention. Revelation 2 is a reference to the historical Jezebel who led Israel into worship of false deities, and likewise, this new false prophetess was leading the community in Thyatria into heresy and vice. What's the application here? To rebuke, reject and avoid false teachers. This is most certainly Christ-like.

 

[topher694]

I haven't read her books, but I have checked out her videos online. She's proven incapable of correctly handling the Word of God as her studies not only suffer poor Biblical exegesis, but she's even adding to Scripture. Her detailed demonology and assertions are nowhere to be found in Scripture. She rips verses out of context and twists them into ideas that are entirely foreign to both Scripture and history.

Anyone who holds to Sola Scriptura must by necessity reject her teachings, as what she teaches is most certainly extra-Biblical. It comes from her own revelation, that she claims to come from God. If she spoke the truth, then she would be able to correctly handle Scripture. Case in point - Revelation 2 is not about the so-called "Jezebel spirit" as suggested by LeClaire. That's a modern invention. Revelation 2 is a reference to the historical Jezebel who led Israel into worship of false deities, and likewise, this new false prophetess was leading the community in Thyatria into heresy and vice. What's the application here? To rebuke, reject and avoid false teachers. This is most certainly Christ-like.

Hilarious, you say we must reject so-called Jezebel spirit teaching then explain Revelation 2 the same way that someone teaching on a Jezebel spirit would explain it... including Jennifer in one of the books you haven't read.

What I've found is many times people who accuse others of things like "poor Biblical exegesis", actually mean that someone doesn't follow THEIR version of Biblical exegesis.

Putting nefarious motives on someone who is a Christian but you don't personally know is most definitely not Christ-like. For the record I DO know Jennifer personally. I have seen her good character first hand. Including dealing with those whom she disagrees. And I can tell you this, I've seen her handle it far and away better than anything I've seen here from you so far.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Hilarious, you say we must reject so-called Jezebel spirit teaching then explain Revelation 2 the same way that someone teaching on a Jezebel spirit would explain it... including Jennifer in one of the books you haven't read.

What I've found is many times people who accuse others of things like "poor Biblical exegesis", actually mean that someone doesn't follow THEIR version of Biblical exegesis.

Putting nefarious motives on someone who is a Christian but you don't personally know is most definitely not Christ-like. For the record I DO know Jennifer personally. I have seen her good character first hand. Including dealing with those whom she disagrees. And I can tell you this, I've seen her handle it far and away better than anything I've seen here from you so far.

No, she goes quite a way beyond what Scripture says. You cannot find the concept of "Jezebel's spirit", "Jezebel daughter spirit", nor "water spirits" in Scripture.

Here is a case of either relying on Scripture alone, or Scripture and new revelation. I'm going to go with the Word of God.

 

[topher694]

No, she goes quite a way beyond what Scripture says. You cannot find the concept of "Jezebel's spirit", "Jezebel daughter spirit", nor "water spirits" in Scripture.

Here is a case of either relying on Scripture alone, or Scripture and new revelation. I'm going to go with the Word of God.

Repeating the same false statement over and over doesn't make it true.

Jezebel is in the Bible beyond just the historical person. The concept is there.
Leviathan is in the Bible. The concept is there.
They are just descriptive names.

By your own logic you should not be able to talk about exegesis because it isn't in the Bible.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Repeating the same false statement over and over doesn't make it true.

Jezebel is in the Bible beyond just the historical person. The concept is there.
Leviathan is in the Bible. The concept is there.
They are just descriptive names.

By your own logic you should not be able to talk about exegesis because it isn't in the Bible.

Well, now. Just because someone applies a Biblical terminology to an idea, it doesn't automatically follow that the teaching attached to it is Biblical. Heresy uses Biblical words and expressions, but it's still heresy.

Let me show you just a couple of examples:

In LeClaire's book about "water spirits", she writes: "My first encounter with a water spirit was Python, which you can read about in Acts 16. Paul went toe-to-toe with this demon and took a beating before he was ultimately set free to the glory of God. Paul gained the victory, but not without some pain. I imagine it was the first time the apostle encountered this variety of marine demon."

Her teaching is based on a complete misreading and stretch of Acts 16. It simply does not have any reference to a marine demon. What trips LeClaire up is the Greek phrase "spirit of Python", which is not a marine demon, nor a specific type or class of demon, but refers to the Grecian god Appollo or a serpent, associated with wisdom, that was worshipped at Delphi. Neither was Paul battling and "ultimately" overcoming it, which LeClaire seems to insinuate. Paul did not go toe-to-toe with the demon - he did not take a beating - but it says: "She followed Paul and us, crying out, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation.” And this she kept doing for many days. Paul, having become greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour."

LeClaire also writes: "When I received revelation that marine demons were real, I decided to take Paul's advice and "not be ignorant of the devil's devices." Here she professes that her doctrine on "water spirits" does not come from Scripture, but from her own revelation. The problem is that she has developed a complete system of demonology that is not only foreign to the Bible, but also unheard of in the history of the Church.

Do demons exist? Yes. Can they possess and influence people? Yes. However, the Bible does not give us a comprehensive system of demonology, with different types and attributes - certainly not to the extent suggested by people like LeClaire. Again, she claims things like that there are demons who "call the waters their domain", and that some can cross over to land, whereas others cannot. Where in Scripture does it say this? Nowhere. Has anyone in the Church taught this? Not to my knowledge. So where does this teaching come from? Well, according to LeClaire, from her own revelation. So then, should we trust God's Word alone, or should we trust God's Word with the added modern revelations of demonology by LeClaire? Again, I have to go for the Bible.

Beyond all of this, what is Scripture fundamentally about? It's about God's grace through Christ; the Gospel; His perfect obedience, death and resurrection, for the forgiveness of sins of all who believe. It's love for God and love for neighbour, and not chasing myths and producing extra-Biblical doctrines.

 

[topher694]

Well, now. Just because someone applies a Biblical terminology to an idea, it doesn't automatically follow that the teaching attached to it is Biblical. Heresy uses Biblical words and expressions, but it's still heresy.

Literally the EXACT same thing could be said about everything you wrote. Not to mention that this is a complete deflection of what I said... you said, "the concept is not there", but it is... now instead you just switch to it being heresy. And thereby you've doubled down on the very un-christ-like character assassination.

LeClaire also writes: "When I received revelation that marine demons were real, I decided to take Paul's advice and "not be ignorant of the devil's devices." Here she professes that her doctrine on "water spirits" does not come from Scripture, but from her own revelation.

This is a gross mis-representation of what revelation means. you say, "do demon's exist? yes" how do you know that? Could it be that in reading the Bible you got an understanding of that truth... a "revelation"? That's all she means by it. Again, I know because I've heard her teach on that very topic in person. Revelation is not come from outside scripture, it come from within scripture, something Jennifer would be the first to tell you.

All this boils down to is that you clearly hold everyone else to a different standard than you hold yourself. You are right and anyone that has a different view than you is wrong, and you'll just manufacture whatever reason you can to "prove" that and attack the differing point of view AND person. I've seen it time and time again. The thing that I have never seen with attitudes like this is that they actually help anyone or further the kingdom in any way, instead they usually divide it.

You go ahead and continue to call everyone with a differing point of view false, I'm done with it. The fruit speaks for itself. I see no value in continuing this.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Literally the EXACT same thing could be said about everything you wrote. Not to mention that this is a complete deflection of what I said... you said, "the concept is not there", but it is... now instead you just switch to it being heresy. And thereby you've doubled down on the very un-christ-like character assassination.


This is a gross mis-representation of what revelation means. you say, "do demon's exist? yes" how do you know that? Could it be that in reading the Bible you got an understanding of that truth... a "revelation"? That's all she means by it. Again, I know because I've heard her teach on that very topic in person. Revelation is not come from outside scripture, it come from within scripture, something Jennifer would be the first to tell you.

All this boils down to is that you clearly hold everyone else to a different standard than you hold yourself. You are right and anyone that has a different view than you is wrong, and you'll just manufacture whatever reason you can to "prove" that and attack the differing point of view AND person. I've seen it time and time again. The thing that I have never seen with attitudes like this is that they actually help anyone or further the kingdom in any way, instead they usually divide it.

You go ahead and continue to call everyone with a differing point of view false, I'm done with it. The fruit speaks for itself. I see no value in continuing this.

Let it suffice to say this: LeClaire teaches that Acts 16 has a reference to a so-called “water spirit”. It does not. What I explained above is not my personal opinion, interpretation or some revelation, but rather a summary of what’s always been taught by the Church on this subject, which is based on the text’s immediate context and its broader historical context. But you don’t have to take my word for it. You can for example check out what various study Bibles have to say on it, or have a look at free online Biblical commentaries such as: Acts 16:16 Commentaries: It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling.

Point being, the doctrine on “water spirits” and the like is both unbiblical and unhistorical. Why? Because it’s developed out of poor exegesis as proven above.

 

[topher694]

B

Let it suffice to say this: LeClaire teaches that Acts 16 has a reference to a so-called “water spirit”. It does not. What I explained above is not my personal opinion, interpretation or some revelation, but rather a summary of what’s always been taught by the Church on this subject, which is based on the text’s immediate context and its broader historical context. But you don’t have to take my word for it. You can for example check out what various study Bibles have to say on it, or have a look at free online Biblical commentaries such as: Acts 16:16 Commentaries: It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling.

Point being, the doctrine on “water spirits” and the like is both unbiblical and unhistorical. Why? Because it’s developed out of poor exegesis as proven above.

Blah, blah, blah

You right. She wrong. It is fact! Ok, got it.

You've proven nothing.

 

[topher694]

For anyone following this. The previous exchange is a great example of what I call "vocabulary theology". Vocabulary theology is when one becomes so enamored with their "spiritual vocabulary" or so offended with another's spiritual vocabulary that they are incapable of seeing past the words and seeing the content. The attack others simply because they use different terminology. Of course this is not how they see it, but the content could be exactly the same, but they are blind to it.

We all use outside words and phrases to help us describe and understand biblical concepts. For example, most people understand what we mean when we talk about God doing supernatural works, but technically the word supernatural does not appear in the Bible, however the concept clearly does.

Ironically some might call this vocabulary theology a "spirit of religion" or a "spirit of leviathan" (a water spirit) due to its judgmental, advisarial and accusational nature.

 

[creslaw]

This has been puzzling me for years and even more so recently as I have done some research on it. What does it mean to have a Jezebel spirit? Is one demonically possessed or has there own eternal spirit become a Jezebel spirit or does it mean something else entirely?

The only place Jezebel is mentioned in the NT is in the 7 letters to the 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2 & 3. I suppose the first thing to determine is do these letters have a significance that goes beyond their immediate application to the 7 churches then in existence? Some say they represent conditions in 7 types of church at any point in history, and others say the letters represent conditions in 7 consecutive church ages. I think both are right.

If we accept either or both explanations then Jezebel takes on a symbolic significance, like much in the book of Revelation.. Her characteristics include fornication and eating wrong things. It is interesting to do a study on 'fornication' and 'eating' as they are used in The Revelation for they too can have symbolic significance (Revelation 18:3, Revelation 10:9).

 

[bèlla]

Rather than focus on the name it’s better to look at the behavior they’re referencing. You need to operate in the discerning of spirits gift to get particulars unless you were given a word of knowledge.

Women who display Jezebel’s traits are manipulative usurpers who incite strife and destroy the works of godly men. It’s a hindering spirit that’s meant to obliterate the ministry or render it ineffective and powerless. They wrest control from him and takeover themselves.

 

[Dave-W]

This has been puzzling me for years and even more so recently as I have done some research on it. What does it mean to have a Jezebel spirit? Is one demonically possessed or has there own eternal spirit become a Jezebel spirit or does it mean something else entirely?

Pastor Steve Sampson does a good job of describing how Jezzy works in his book "I Was Always on my Mind."

Steve Sampson Ministries :: I Was Always On My Mind

 

[bougti]

Jezebel spirit is within a person and a way of life because the person is using this tactic to control others. Jezebel spirit is in many churches today creating strife, division, and confusion in the body of believers and this Jezebel spirit is within this ChristianChat site. I was not aware of it until lately because that Jezebel spirit is very cunning, manipulative, and controlling. Jezebel spirit despise the power of prayer,fellowship, ministering to others, and encouraging believers. Especially when the Jezebel spirit has others in authority under ones power and discernment is important.








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