Tithing, yes or no? Would you give to God if "tithe" wasn't

[Gregorikos]

This is our Christian advice place; so I advise, if you tithe, that you evaluate if your tithes are being used the way the early scriptures directed.

Many of the OT tithes were livestock completely incinerated or perfectly good wine dumped on the ground. I like giving to worthy causes, but thats not the most important aspect of our worship.

 

[Gregorikos]

If you read the OT much you will notice that people who worshipped God gave to God. That was part of worship.

For instance-

Genesis 28:20 (ESV)
Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat and clothing to wear, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God, and this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God's house. And of all that you give me I will give a full tenth to you.”

That was before the "old covenant." And thats one of many. If you worship God, you give to God.

 

[tturt]

Yeshua watched the offering plate and noticed who gave and how much. Then He remarked "For they all put in from their abundance, but she from her need has put in everything she had - all she had to live on.” (Mark 12:44).

Or do we think He let the poor widow put in everything she had without blessing her as promised in the OT - Mal 3:10?

 

[com7fy8]

There was a tithing thread not long ago, I can't find it. There were pro's and con's.
The biggest argument against was that it is in the OT only.
One of the ministers I watch on occasion was discussing it today. He said:
It is in the NT....Mathew 23:23.
It was a good thread so maybe those against tithing would like to reply to this added info?

Matthew 23:23 New International Version (NIV)
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

I have tried to pray and not just take one side or another about this.

One thing I consider is Jesus did mean the Pharisees should tithe, but that was while the Law was still established, before Jesus brought in the New Covenant with all so better. So, yes they should have, under the Law, but we are not under the Law.

But does this mean we are not required to tithe?

Deuteronomy 12:17-19 to me shows that the tither at times could eat of the tithe which was of grain and wine and animals. It was eaten where the LORD had Israel gather before Him.

Deuteronomy 24:28-29 to me means the tithe includes food of harvest which is stored so ones without land inheritance can have food > the Levites, "the stranger", widows, and "the fatherless". And they were welcome to have enough food so they ate and were "satisfied", which I understand means they were not controlled to get less than what they needed and would enjoy eating.

And the Malachi scripture says to bring the tithe to the "storehouse". There is where the Levite and others could freely get plenty of food. So, to me this means how ones practicing tithing provide plenty of food for ministerial people, widows, fatherless, and strangers. But in my case, I have seen tithed money used otherwise, with churches announcing that the "tithes" are for building expenses, and where there has been no announcement that I have heard, about fatherless and widows and foreign visitors being freely welcome to enough food so they are satisfied. So, what if the church in a certain area does not practice tithing into storage for needy people whom God's word means to freely get enough food, including enough to be satisfied? I see how God can personally guide people to personally share with the needy they know, plus donate to organized food giving. I can do what I can, according to praying and trusting God to personally guide me in detail.

I now think of how certain scripture of Paul seems to me to say the church took care of widows who had no one to watch out for them > 1 Timothy 3:5-8. And so, now I can see that when that widow put in all her livelihood, Israel was obligated to fully support her; but . . . perhaps . . . she said goodbye to that and joined Jesus who had the purse which could support her while she specialized in prayer, like Paul says a true Christian widow does, in 1 Timothy 3:5-8. And there were followers who could have taken her in, I suppose.

In any case, my advice is that the Bible says it is God's basic New Covenant guarantee that He pleases to personally guide His children in His own peace, as it is written . . . as His commandment >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, my advice about tithing, then, is always submit exactly to how God personally guides you in His peace, and you will find out what He has you doing.

And, by the way, I now recall that the Jews donated items they got from Egypt, using them for making ministerial structures and items. They did not use tithes of their crops and livestock, but they used jewels and metals and animal skins and wood. Those were freewill offerings, not tithes from livestock and their harvests. So, yes I would say God wants us to help to support location expenses for having gatherings.

But the priority building to support is God's people who are His temple. So, my advice is we pray and simply obey how God personally guides us in sharing as His family. And do not threaten people with curses or call them thieves if they do not give money for building expenses; because, it appears to me, building expense tithing is not what Malachi and Jesus mean. And God's word says for us to bless those who curse us; so bless anyone who claims some curse on you, but do what He has us doing.

And Paul says how ones giving truly "first gave themselves to the Lord," in 2 Corinthians 8:5. I see that this is connected with personally submitting to how our Father rules us in His peace > Colossians 3:15 > we give ourselves to Jesus so now we are constantly seeking to submit to how He personally rules each of us in His own peace > "My peace I give to you," He says in John 14:27. We need to be given to, sacrificed to, how Jesus constantly rules us in His own peace - - - which He Himself experiences, since this is His peace And such sharing with Christ brings the giving which He really means; so I advise this.

 

[GenemZ]

Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and
watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many
rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in
two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor
widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all
gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in
everything—all she had to live on.” Mark 12:41-44​

No tithe was being given. It was an offering!

Tithes were demanded of both the believer and unbeliever! It was national policy!

Offerings are from a choice one makes. God evaluates our choices.

You're not going to get to heaven by paying income taxes. Though, Joe Biden would like us to believe that.

The truth will make you free. Not fulfilling man made traditions. Tithing is not for today.

 

[NerdGirl]

Hey, more options got added!

I would still give if it were not mandated in the OT. One of my favorite passages in Scripture is Acts 2:44-47 "All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."

I believe this passage is a template for how the ideal way God wants us to live. Everyone of one mind and heart, everyone pitching in and contributing what they can into a common pool of resources, so that everyone has what they need. Nothing is taken by force or coercion or pressure. People give freely, and therefore can receive freely when they are in a time of need. This is how my church has always been. When I've experienced times of poverty, they showed up with boxes of food, with clothing, with Christmas gifts, with offers of help. So, when I'm able to give, I happily give back, so that my resources can now be used to bless another soul in need.

If we'd all operate this way, the need for forced "charity" would be vastly reduced, if not eliminated entirely.

 

[Blade]

doesnt matter what man says we are giving to God not man. Yes we would like the money to go to blah blah blah yet we are NOT giving to man but to God.

Written a reward for giving yet not why we give and just be cheerful period. With God we are more blessed when we give in all areas of our life.

 

[GenemZ]

Hey, more options got added!

I would still give if it were not mandated in the OT. One of my favorite passages in Scripture is Acts 2:44-47 "All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."

I believe this passage is a template for how the ideal way God wants us to live.

Only when there is a very major Word of God revival going on.

They as a community were all forming into one big Bible College AND ATTENDED CLASSES DAILY. They devoted themselves to DAILY teachings! Sound teachings. Not, like we see today, with a Sunday service and maybe a Wednesday night service sitting there getting mediocre teachings at best. There was deep serious teaching going on!... Not the expected "preaching to the choir sermons" we get spoon fed in too many churches today. That is why they all needed to stop their work and took off time to become inducted (and trained) into the Army of God!

Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.​

The Church was first born at that time! They all needed a concentrated crash course on the new way of life they had entered into. To do so, many had no time for work. Later on after being stabilized, getting back to work would take place having become oriented to the needed knowledge to become stabilized within the new life they were just born into.

That was not to be an every day way of life for the Church, which now has been established! It was a time set aside for those drafted by God into His Army, needing training for spiritual combat!

Good Bible colleges can be that way. During times of intense spiritual warfare everyone attending needs to take off a few years to get a crash course in sound doctrine. Some may work menial jobs to pay tuition, etc.

That is.. If you can find a good Bible college today. They pop up during times of revival. They should never become as a tradition and routine. Then it would defeat the purpose for them. Basic training for times of war.

 

[returntosender]

If you think of it as a requirement you will always be wondering if you should or not.
Hasn't it always been voluntary on our part in our time?
Since there are so many that question the reasoning I thought it might help to give a scripture to help but still the questions remain. To me all comes from God so why not try to return to him a little of that love he gives us? Where does your money come from? God provides. Ten percent or more is a pittle compared to what we get. Begrudging is beyond my way of thinking with God.
In a previous post was a perfect answer. I will look it up and quote it here.
God bless you all. I hope you find a way in your love for God.
Not to make anyone feel guilty there are cases where it just isn't possible. I am sure God knows exceptions. Let your spirit guide you.
TTurt said:
"Tithing ? Didn't know there could be an area of our lives that wasn't surrendered to Him."

I do want to say this, a poster mentioned the church needs support. If people don't tithe the church will fall. They need us to stay alive and spread Gods word.
That's a good way to weed out those that aren't Gods church.

 

[HappyHope]

I adore how the New Testament is not as rigid as the Old. Tithing is not listed in the requirements to be a church leader. Tithing is not even listed as part of the 10 Commandments. I believe it is healthy for many of us but so is a grandma struggling to keep her grandkids out of foster care and other situations like that. Foster care tends to mess up kids 6 times worse than dysfunctional families.

People are on different missions. Some may not tithe to a church but give their time, energy, focus & spare funds above and beyond 10% to care for for others in Jesus's name. I'm not about to tell anyone their mission. I only ask that they be led by the Holy Spirit.

My family tithes because we feel it is good for our family to submit to God in this way because it forces us to look outside ourselves more and rely on him more. Others may not have the same weaknesses or feel led the same. I like to think tithing is like giving God cake and offerings are the frosting and sprinkles. Obviously he needs neither but I like to think this way. He is funding this whole epic called life. He gets a piece of the pie.

Perhaps it is telling when modern churches go uber OT on tithing. Almost like it is in their best interest? Churches have some highly questionable spending habits so I am no longer advocating for tithing only to churches too (Looking at you key logging kings). There are amazing parachurch organizations and other causes that help people come to Christ and serve others as the hands and feet of Jesus.

God's upside down kingdom is very cool. To be a leader, you serve. To gain, you give. To learn and progress, you lean and follow. Give to God what is God's can mean different things to different people I imagine. OT "tithe" was framework/ training wheel guideline talk in my mind. NT love knows no bounds.

 

[Strong in Him]

If you think of it as a requirement you will always be wondering if you should or not.
Hasn't it always been voluntary on our part in our time?
Since there are so many that question the reasoning I thought it might help to give a scripture to help but still the questions remain.

For me, if someone was teaching tithing or trying to insist upon it, I would ask "why?"
The answer that I have heard/read on these forums has been "because it's Scriptural."
But if they are going to insist on tithing (I'm not saying you are, but some church leaders do) because Scripture teaches it, they they should follow the rules of tithing as laid down in Scripture. And in the OT the tithe was always food - 10% of their crops - not money. Furthermore, they all sat down in Jerusalem and ATE their tithe.
These days people teach, "tithing is giving 10% of your money to the church; Scripture teaches this". No it doesn't. The pattern in the NT was giving, and giving either 100% or as the Lord led.

If a church leader wants to teach "we need to give back to God, and this church needs money to keep going. 10% is a good starting, or average, figure, but if you want to give more, or need to give less, that's fine" - that's ok.
But teaching that giving 10% of your money to this church is mandatory because "it's Scriptural", is wrong.

To me all comes from God so why not try to return to him a little of that love he gives us?

But no one's saying that if people don't tithe then they aren't giving to God at all.
Everything we have does come from God, yes. And if we belong to the Lord all we have is his - so he owns 100% of our money, not 10%.

Ten percent or more is a pittle compared to what we get. Begrudging is beyond my way of thinking with God.

As I said, who said that people who don't tithe aren't giving at all?
Someone may not be tithing - giving 10% - because they are actually giving 50%.

I do want to say this, a poster mentioned the church needs support. If people don't tithe the church will fall.

The church is the people, and it cannot fall.
If people neither tithed, nor gave, money to maintain the building, that building might eventually have to close. But maybe God is telling people to get out of their buildings, not make an idol of them and get into the community anyway.

That's a good way to weed out those that aren't Gods church.

Christians can faithfully give 10% of their money to "the church" and still not be born again.
I have known some very generous church members, who gave because their family were always involved with their particular church building/parents were married there, granddad built the pulpit etc etc, and they need it to continue so that they can have their funeral there and be buried with the rest of their family. As one Minister said "the purpose of the church (they say) is to be there for their funeral."
That is not a good reason for giving 10% of your money, and has nothing to do with whether or not you are born again.

And these days, giving is not always easy to define.
Church members who visit other members in hospital, run activities for children, the homeless and lonely, are giving their time - it would cost the church a fortune to put on many of its programmes with paid staff. There are lay preachers who voluntarily give up their time to prepare, and lead, services and write sermons. Again, it would cost the church a fortune to employ that many paid clergy - assuming they could even find as many as they needed.
Freely giving up your time for the Gospel is just as valuable, in my book. Yet some church leaders still seem to make it all about money.

 

[returntosender]

For me, if someone was teaching tithing or trying to insist upon it, I would ask "why?"
The answer that I have heard/read on these forums has been "because it's Scriptural."
But if they are going to insist on tithing (I'm not saying you are, but some church leaders do) because Scripture teaches it, they they should follow the rules of tithing as laid down in Scripture. And in the OT the tithe was always food - 10% of their crops - not money. Furthermore, they all sat down in Jerusalem and ATE their tithe.
These days people teach, "tithing is giving 10% of your money to the church; Scripture teaches this". No it doesn't. The pattern in the NT was giving, and giving either 100% or as the Lord led.

If a church leader wants to teach "we need to give back to God, and this church needs money to keep going. 10% is a good starting, or average, figure, but if you want to give more, or need to give less, that's fine" - that's ok.
But teaching that giving 10% of your money to this church is mandatory because "it's Scriptural", is wrong.



But no one's saying that if people don't tithe then they aren't giving to God at all.
Everything we have does come from God, yes. And if we belong to the Lord all we have is his - so he owns 100% of our money, not 10%.



As I said, who said that people who don't tithe aren't giving at all?
Someone may not be tithing - giving 10% - because they are actually giving 50%.



The church is the people, and it cannot fall.
If people neither tithed, nor gave, money to maintain the building, that building might eventually have to close. But maybe God is telling people to get out of their buildings, not make an idol of them and get into the community anyway.



Christians can faithfully give 10% of their money to "the church" and still not be born again.
I have known some very generous church members, who gave because their family were always involved with their particular church building/parents were married there, granddad built the pulpit etc etc, and they need it to continue so that they can have their funeral there and be buried with the rest of their family. As one Minister said "the purpose of the church (they say) is to be there for their funeral."
That is not a good reason for giving 10% of your money, and has nothing to do with whether or not you are born again.

And these days, giving is not always easy to define.
Church members who visit other members in hospital, run activities for children, the homeless and lonely, are giving their time - it would cost the church a fortune to put on many of its programmes with paid staff. There are lay preachers who voluntarily give up their time to prepare, and lead, services and write sermons. Again, it would cost the church a fortune to employ that many paid clergy - assuming they could even find as many as they needed.
Freely giving up your time for the Gospel is just as valuable, in my book. Yet some church leaders still seem to make it all about money.

You have a right to your opinion. You all have that right. I don't understand the need to sidestep tithing but you and all of those who wish to have that right do. Your defense should be taken up with God.
I would disagree with you that most of the reasons given "because it's Scriptural."
Some on the other thread wanted a scripture to prove the point of tithing in our time but most here have said it is a part of their life with God in different words.

 

[Strong in Him]

You have a right to your opinion. You all have that right. I don't understand the need to sidestep tithing but you and all of those who wish to have that right do.

It's not my opinion though, it's fact.
Read what Scripture says about tithing; the tithe was always 10% of crops and people took it to Jerusalem and ATE it to celebrate all that God had given them.
In Scripture, that was how people tithed - full stop.

So leaders who teach their congregations, "you HAVE to give 10% of your wages to this church because tithing is Scriptural", are wrong. Tithing was produce, not money.
If they are insisting that Christians tithe according to the teaching of the Bible, then they should tell all their members to buy allotments, take 10% of the vegetables that they grow to church and they will have a huge party - including the poor and anyone else who does not have an allotment - to celebrate God's goodness and his blessing on them. If they were to do that then they would indeed be following the principle of tithing as laid down in Scripture.

Christians in the NT did not tithe, they gave everything.
ALL that we have comes from God - if you want to give only 10% back to him, go ahead.

 

[garee]

It's not my opinion though, it's fact.
Read what Scripture says about tithing; the tithe was always 10% of crops and people took it to Jerusalem and ATE it to celebrate all that God had given them.
In Scripture, that was how people tithed - full stop.

So leaders who teach their congregations, "you HAVE to give 10% of your wages to this church because tithing is Scriptural", are wrong. Tithing was produce, not money.
If they are insisting that Christians tithe according to the teaching of the Bible, then they should tell all their members to buy allotments, take 10% of the vegetables that they grow to church and they will have a huge party - including the poor and anyone else who does not have an allotment - to celebrate God's goodness and his blessing on them. If they were to do that then they would indeed be following the principle of tithing as laid down in Scripture.

if you want to give only 10% back to him, go ahead.

Christians in the NT did not tithe, they gave everything.
ALL that we have comes from God -

I would offer. Money can be used but is not the subject as you have mentioned it does not get to the heart of the matter.

I would think once the wilderness fast is defined then tithing falls into place.

God who has no needs satisfices all .

10, 100, or 1000 is used as a metaphor in various parables throughout the bible to indicate the whole of whatever is in view. In that way parables are designed to teach us how to walk or understand God not seen as it is written as he empowers us to do so. Therefore we can seek his approval as he lovingly commands us to study and work out the desires of His heart.

If our heart or desire is not there then nothing 0 % is required. For where we find our heart there is the treasure. It is Christ working in or with us that gives us the desires of his eternal heart.

Ultimately the fast set up in the wilderness includes our whole lives offered as a living sacrifice our reasonable service in view of the great mercy and grace . We can offer our bodies as new creatures sons of God those empowered to do so .

In that way along with manna; "the bread of unfamiliarity" came the dew which the manna was set on. This assures us we have the doctrine of God that fall like rain or dew upon the grass and not man inspired form earth as an oral tradition of mankind. I believe you could say it sets the ground work for the tithe.

Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

A picture of God preparing our hearts for his understanding in the parable below.

Numbers 11:9 And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.


The tithe represents faith (unseen). It was used to represent the true fast ( Isaiah 58 parable) not as the disciples who could not cast out the lying spirits (legion)


On the second day of the fast, the day of eating, unlike the first day the preparing they were to share the bread of unfamiliarity used to indicate the gospel . . along with clothing, shelter or all worldly goods. Again using 10 to represent all .Then the rest (sabbath) acknowledging God is working in us to both will and do His good pleasure could be said to be heard on high .(the witness of God working in us )

The fast represents the gospel not in apart but the whole. Mixing the things seen the temporal with the unseen things hid in those parables or called hidden manna in Revelation 2:17. Mysteries of God hidden in parables.

Isaiahs 58 :6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.

Same kind of gospel spoken to John when he was having doubt using the temporal, blindness, deafness, lame and lepers that have no sensitivity to the things of God as those spiritually bankrupt(poor) . The whole tithe 1000%


Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

 

[returntosender]

This is not a debate on what a tithe is defined as but I think it covers numerous things such as:
Money
time
sweat
tears
etc.
Feel free to add to the list if you wish

 

[Strong in Him]

This is not a debate on what a tithe is defined as but I think it covers numerous things such as:
Money
time
sweat
tears
etc.
Feel free to add to the list if you wish

But "tithe" is a Biblical word, and those who claim that it is mandatory do so because the Scriptures teach it.

Again, if someone is going to teach tithing because it is Scriptural, it needs to be followed as in Deuteronomy 14:22-29.

 

[returntosender]

Who's teaching it? I certainly am not informed enough for that. I just would like to know where people stand on it and why as it does seem to be a puzzle to some. For me I don't see it as demanded but I can't see not doing it either. It definitely seems to be a personal choice with or without scripture to back it up in the new testament. If you have scripture that you think is a reason from God why we should be doing it I think many would appreciate it.

 

[Strong in Him]

Who's teaching it?

I didn't say that you or anyone else was - in this thread.
I said that previously some people have started threads on tithing and the response has been "we have to because it's Scripture, even if it is only OT."
My response simply was that if anyone reads the tithing taught in Deuteronomy 14, I think they would concede that no one tithes like that today.

I just would like to know where people stand on it and why as it does seem to be a puzzle to some.

The OT is very clear on tithing - it was always 10% of crops, and they ate their tithe to celebrate God's goodness.
People can certainly give 19% of their money to the church if they wish, but it is not right to say that this is tithing "according to Scripture" and certainly not right to insist that Christians have to do it.

It definitely seems to be a personal choice with or without scripture to back it up in the new testament.

People are free to give to God as they see fit or according to what they think is right. If that is 10%, fine; if it's 28, 45 or 66%, good. And if it's 5%, that's ok too.

If you have scripture that you think is a reason from God why we should be doing it I think many would appreciate it.

I don't - because I don't think we should necessarily do it.
Fine if 10% is what you want to give, but it's not commanded anywhere.

 

[garee]

This is not a debate on what a tithe is defined as but I think it covers numerous things such as:
Money
time
sweat
tears
etc.
Feel free to add to the list if you wish

Love of God working in us with us making our load lighter..

 

[garee]

But "tithe" is a Biblical word, and those who claim that it is mandatory do so because the Scriptures teach it.

Again, if someone is going to teach tithing because it is Scriptural, it needs to be followed as in Deuteronomy 14:22-29.

Ceremonial laws are necessary to keep by guarding with our new hearts. Only Christ in the Son of man could keep them perfectly (not as I will but as you father) was the reply.

They as shadows just don't provide substance. A tithe is a tenth . Ten, hundred and thousands in multiples are used in parables to represent all that is in view . He desires we give 100% . of the seed (spiritual Christ) calling the tithe a increase of His seed. . . again as in all we are freely given .

In that way he the 100% must increase as we decrease.

Deuteronomy 14:22-23 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.