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Futurist Only Timing of the two witnesses, by working backwards

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Working backwards,

    Revelation 20:1-3......Satan chained and cast into the bottomless pit

    Revelation 19:11-20....Jesus returns

    Revelation 12:14.........Satan persecutes the woman, a time, times, half times

    Revelation 12:12 ........Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea

    Revelation 12: 9-10...Satan cast down to the earth

    Revelation 12:7-9......War in the second heaven

    Revelation 11:18.........Time of God's wrath has come

    Revelation 11:15.........The seventh angel sounds his trumpet

    Revelation 11:14.........Time has come for the third woe

    Revelation 11:11..........The two witnesses come back to life and ascend to heaven

    Revelation 11:7...........The beast kills the two witnesses, at the end of their testimony

    Revelation 11:3...........The two witnesses begin their 1260 days of prophesying

    Daniel 9:27.................The prince who shall come confirms the covenant with many for 7 years.



    Conclusion: The 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the seven years.
     
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  2. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I, and the Bible disagree, as it is only during the second half of the final 7 years, that the AC has control of Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 3:7

    Daniel 9:27.after one half is spent, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings...
    Plainly referring to the final 'week' of seven years, when he conquers Beulah, the new Christian nation in the holy Land.
    It has to be then, as the 2 Witnesses are killed by him in Jerusalem. Revelation 11:7
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    How can the bible disagree with me, when I go step by step, verses by verse, backtracking through the text, not putting one single verse out of order?
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    I had not even spoke about Jerusalem.

    Okay, I am going to say to you where you are jumping to conclusions (the wrong conclusion). The beast kills the two witnesses - so you are thinking that must be in the second half seven years - because he rules 42 months in Revelation 13:5.

    Wrong conclusion. The person becomes the beast in the first half, close to the end of it. The image of the beast, the AoD is setup on day 1185, still in the first half. (2520-1335 days). So the person has to have become the beast before then, sometime in the first half, somewhere near the end of it.

    Day 1185 is close to the end of the two witnesses time. The two witnesses battle 75 days with the beast as the Jews flee Jerusalem and the beast then kills them. 3 1/2 days they come back to life, ascend to heaven, and in their absence, the beast rules the remaining 42 months, in Revelation 13.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The two witnesses are killed by the beast, yes. But the stopping of the daily sacrifice is in the midst of the week, not the exact middle.

    The stopping of the daily sacrifice will be sometime before day 1185, when the AoD image of the beast is setup, placed in the temple, still in the first half. And in the middle part of the week.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  5. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    :scratch: Are you saying that the two witnesses will be killed at or close to the end of the first half, and the beginning of the second half of the last seven weeks.:scratch:
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I am saying that the two witnesses are killed on day 1260.

    For 75 days before then, they will be battling the beast for 75 days as the Jews flee, because the image of the beast will have been placed in the temple on day 1185. (2520-1335). Day 1185 and the 75 days are still in the first half, but near the end of it. Day 1260 is the exact end of the first half.
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    Since the image of the beast is made after the person has become the beast, the person becomes the beast before day 1185. Here is that course of events, beginning with day 1 of the 7 years. Some of the days are guesses because there is not enough information given to determine an exact day.

    1. the person has become the Antichrist - day 1

    2. the person commits the ToD, the transgression of desolation act, sitting in the temple claiming to have achieved God-hood. Revealed as the man of sin. It marks the ending of his time as being the Antichrist, King (unapproved by God) of Israel. day unknown, but somewhere around day 1100, a guess.

    3. God has the revealed man of sin killed for sitting in His Seat (designated to be for God) in the temple, claiming to be God. day 1130, a guess.

    4. There will be a big open casket funeral for the slain man of sin, my speculation.

    5. God in disdain for the person, in Isaiah 14:19-20, casts his soul out of hell.

    6. The person sits up in his casket, come back to life, day 1140, a guess. Now the beast. The world is dumbfounded and thinks the come back to life man of sin, really has achieved God-hood. And worship him.

    7. The false prophet has the people of the world make a statue image of the beast, and the AoD, the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast, is placed in the temple on day 1185. Based on Daniel 12:12, the 1335 days. (Day 2520-1335)

    8. The Jews begin to flee. The two witnesses battle with beast over the course of the next 75 days. On day 1260, the beast kills them. Closing the window for assisted fleeing by the two witnesses.

    9. On day 1263.5, the two witnesses come back to life and ascend to heaven. Leaving the beast free to rule the world without being inhibited by the two witnesses for 1256.5 days (called 42 months), until Jesus returns on day 2520.


     
  7. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    There is not 1, but 2 covenants.
    There is the 'covenant with Death & Hades' Isaiah 28:14-18 & the Mosaic covenant referenced in Daniel 9 & Ezekiel 44:7

    The 2 witnesses 1260 days begin with the breaking of one & the simultaneous making of the other. At the end of the 1260 days is the breaking of the 2nd one.

    The 'beast that is coming up from the abyss' to kill the 2 witnesses in Revelation 11:7 is the 2nd phase of the 'beast that was, is not, yet is' in Revelation 17:8 - the 'yet is' portion. The 'was' portion is roughly the same time as the 2 witnesses 1260 days. The 'was' portion doesn't mean a historical existence. The 'was' portion arrives at the 1st Trumpet to cut off the daily sacrifices with the locusts. The 'yet is' portion is the beast that is 'coming up from the abyss' to kill the 2 witnesses.

    The 'is not' portion is the 'pregnancy term' of Revelation 12. After people have gotten rid of the beast in the 1st portion, the 2nd portion is Satan trying to emulate being the arrival of the messiah to save everyone.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Somewhat related, but the covenant with death and hell is that the Jews, Israel will embrace the prince who shall come little horn as the messiah. (He does confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant in Daniel 9:27 as you say, but breaks in the middle of the week)

    That they embrace him as such (as their messiah)
    is the covenant with death and hell... that God will not let stand. The Jews eventually in the middle part of the 7 years, reject the person from thinking he is the messiah.
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    Death and Hell are actually referred to in Revelation 6, that will take place after the Jews have rejected the person as being their messiah. And is into the great tribulation.

    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
     
  9. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    When the gentiles/ nations receive the outer court, this happens via covenant. Revelation 11:1-2

    The fact that they receive it at all is breaking the mosaic covenant. Ezekiel 44:7. The gentile who receives the outer court will break the covenant 1260 days later and attack the 2 witnesses.
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Well, what I think it is saying in Revelation 11:1-2, is that after person becomes the beast, his army will occupy Jerusalem to enforce what ever dictates the person makes. The outer court being a reference to the city, although it can apply to the outer court within the temple walls.

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    On a separate note, the person when he first comes to power as the little horn, in my interpretation, he is selected to be leader of the EU. Part of the democratic process.

    Later into the 7 years, when the person becomes the beast, the ten kings (leaders) of the EU give the reigns of the EU over to him to be dictator. In similitude, but not exactly, as Hitler became dictator.
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I am saying that the 2W will be killed about 3 1/2 days before day 2520, when Jesus will Return. He will bring them straight back to earth with Him.
    It is plain that the AC dies not have control of the whole world until at the mid point of the final 7 years, he attacks and conquers the people in the holy Land. THEN he sits in the Temple, 2 Thess 2:4, THEN he is given permission to continue for 42 months. Revelation 13:5
    Time for you to get over the wrong ideas of an 'anytime rapture', the European union having anything to do with end times and the Jews still being God's chosen people.
     
  12. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  13. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Please identify from the text of the bible what is the third woe.

    Because in the text of Revelation 11, the time of the third woe comes after the two witnesses are called up to heaven.
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Good point, Douggg.
    It isn't clear what the 'woes' are and how many of them there are.
    But: Then the Seventh angel blew his Trumpet.... Revelation 11:15. So this pinpoints the time the 2W are killed; After the first 6 Trumpets.

    The Sixth Trumpet; Revelation 9:13-19....releases the 200 million demonic army, that kills a third of mankind as Revelation 14:14-20 describes.
    Revelation 15:1 goes on to say; then will happen the Seven plagues, [Bowls or Vials] and with them; the wrath of God is completed.

    So it is plain for all to see, including Douggggg; that all this must happen during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns - the second half of Daniels 70th 'week'.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Keras, it says three woes in Revelaition 8:13. You knows this, but probably forgot.

    Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    Please go back to my opening post, where I work backwards verse by verse. The third woe, and what it is, is in...

    Revelation 12:12 ........Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea

    Satan is cast down to the earth, as the third woe; :he has a time, times, half times left - the second half.

    Before then, warning of the third woe coming is in Revelation 11:14, after the 1260 days of the two witnesses.


    Revelation 11:14.........Time has come for the third woe

    Revelation 11:11..........The two witnesses come back to life and ascend to heaven

    Revelation 11:7...........The beast kills the two witnesses, at the end of their testimony

    Revelation 11:3...........The two witnesses begin their 1260 days of prophesying

    Daniel 9:27.................The prince who shall come confirms the covenant with many for 7 years.
     
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